Floating in NL tournaments
 

For those that read on mid-high LHE forum, you probably already understand the concept of floating. For those who don't, floating is a play often used in limit hold em that involves calling a raise in position, then leveraging that position later on in the hand to try to win without a showdown, or sometimes make a big hand if you fall into one. It is usually done w/ hands like smallish pairs and suited connectors and gappers.

Anyway, here's a hand I played in today's $50R on Stars. My opponent is a player I recognize to be good and thinking.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t5165)
MP2 (t1600)
MP3 (t7810)
CO (t4975)
Hero (t14400)
SB (t7130)
BB (t3025)
UTG (t11257)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds</font>, Villain raises to t450</font>, Hero calls t450, 2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t1125) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)</font>
Villain bets t750</font>, Hero calls t750.

Turn: (t2625) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)</font>

Villain checks, Hero bets 2250

What do you all think of this play?

Edited to say that I hope Mike doesn't think my title is lame.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

I like betting the turn here if a total brick hits but with the 9h giving me such a beautiful draw i might be tempted to take the free one.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

Love the title. Love the play. Making these types of plays is what playing a big stack well is all about.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

Standard.

Except you actually have a nice draw with the turn card, so its really a semibluff. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This is a key play I make when it seems right (I have the right position, right guy raising, right weak blinds etc.)

As long as you are making that bet when the turn bricks too, and raising the turn when it bricks and he leads again (sometimes)

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

I was betting any turn. The 9h was just sort of a bonus [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

villain has 3800 on the turn in a pot of 2600. i like that you bet instead of pushing, which is what i probably would've done.

nice hand. i was aware of the play before, but not the term.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like betting the turn here if a total brick hits but with the 9h giving me such a beautiful draw i might be tempted to take the free one.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. The bet is good on a brick, so it's better on a card where you pick up 12 outs. He folds just as often as he would have otherwise, on the turn. But check behind and you don't get as many folds on the river, in part because he'll bet into you sometimes. If he has two broadway you guys are playing chicken after the flop call. Next bet wins. You also don't make as much when you hit if you check behind versus what you make the few times he calls. Check behind with a draw is for spots when you're usually not getting a fold. His line is classic "please take the pot from me."

Another thing - if he has missed overs that he will fold you need to bet the turn to "protect your hand," especially if he has you dominated. Catching a queen on the river could really suck.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

Excellent post.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

agreed, the play is good. you could fall into a great hand and his post-flop bluff was just thwarted. I imagine that he folded...

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

nh given a read that this works a good % of the time.

Re: Floating in NL tournaments
 

One further thought.

The reason floating works is that there are a ton of people who think you are supposed to bet the flop every time you raise. Calling a raise in position with an implied odds hand is twice as valuable when your opponent is one of these people. When you have him covered by a lot and both of you are deepish, not only do you have implied odds and this second layer of (why not?) 'float equity', the type of opponent who is most susceptible to this play is also the type of opponent who gets scared shitless when you calls his raise what seems like every g-damn time.

Edit: Counting on both implied odds and on getting a fold on the turn or river isn't contradictory, since his flaw is putting chips in too often on the flop. It doesn't matter whether you hit or not, as long as you read hands well - he puts free chips out there, on average. And if he's predictable enough, you always have all the info you need by the time you commit significant chips.


(This is why you shouldn't bet the flop every time you raise unless you are playing morons)

Results
 

He checkraised all in fairly quickly and I of course had to call the 1500 more. He had 89s and I rivered a pair of Queens, which wasn't enough. I love his line in this hand and I take it fairly often with big hands vs. aggressive players.

Re: Results
 

What do you do if he bets 1/2 pot?

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if he bets 1/2 pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

On this specific turn card, I think I have no other choice but to shove all in considering the preflop and flop plays that I've already made. What I'd do on a different turn card is hard to say, it would depend on what card it was.

Re: Results
 

Yeah. I do this play often too, but I usually give up if he bets the turn again, unless it feels really weak. Just wondering if you also give a turn CB more credit (cause I sure do).

But hey, don't go 2 barreling bluffs on me next time I see you in the 50 rebuy.

Re: Results
 

With this opponent's stack size in this hand, I think I may have to give it up on a turn blank if he kept the lead. However, if he was deeper and I was feeling frisky enough, I may raise just about any turn card. I guess I sorta picked a bad spot because the way I'm going about playing this hand doesn't leave me a whole lot of wiggle room on the turn. But that's ok, I'm learning.

Re: Results
 

I see you ignored the last part of my post...

touche.

Re: Results
 

I would never 2 barrel bluff you, it's not like you're some donkey calling the 832 rainbow flop w/ QJ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: Results
 

I wish I wasnt.

The best part of this play though, is when they berate you after for calling the flop with Q high.

BTW this hand seems to be really similar to the Raymer- Kanter hand from the wsop.