I never know if I should fold these
 

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.00 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero ....

They kill me. I know I have to call the turn for the hidden outs, but then when i never improve on the river I'm alway s stuck not knowing what to do.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

Reads make this a lot easier. It's still tough, but it's a lot easier.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

seriously, we usually all do what you do if the board is like this:

1) fold and wonder if we were good
or
2)call down, get pissed off if we lose, and think we're good if we win

I honestly don't think there's too much of a difference here. A9 I might fold, but AT I might call. It's pretty arbitrary

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

jsut q798t ntopw =uoui never win at po ker.,

ajust ask rkursho. kurohsc. l kruchose. kurosh. there we go.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

[ QUOTE ]
jsut q798t ntopw =uoui never win at po ker.,

ajust ask rkursho. kurohsc. l kruchose. kurosh. there we go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow, I managed to translate that. Wasn't very useful tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

BTW, what's your old name?

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reads make this a lot easier. It's still tough, but it's a lot easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know they do but it still comes up enough where I gotta know how to do it vs unknown. And Jax, those are my thoughts exactly [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

On this board, there are just not enough A's that you beat, let alone A's that would raise that you beat. I think this is a fold against most players.

While knowing the proper action against an unknown is great and all, you should minimize the amount of time that a player is ever unknown. It would at least be polite to tell reponders to use their default player. That tells us you've at least thought about reads and such rather than just cut and pasting from the converter.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

[ QUOTE ]
On this board, there are just not enough A's that you beat, let alone A's that would raise that you beat. I think this is a fold against most players.

While knowing the proper action against an unknown is great and all, you should minimize the amount of time that a player is ever unknown. It would at least be polite to tell reponders to use their default player. That tells us you've at least thought about reads and such rather than just cut and pasting from the converter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

I'd fold. That river card sucked majorly re: wookie's point.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

[ QUOTE ]
jsut q798t ntopw =uoui never win at po ker.,

ajust ask rkursho. kurohsc. l kruchose. kurosh. there we go.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm confused?

Guess I might as well talk about the hand too. I don't know how 1/2 plays. I'd guess they are passive? If they are passive, I'd say you're looking at a minimum of 2-pair. If they're really passive and they only do this with a set or better, I'd fold. If it's 2-pair, then call and fold the river UI. I don't think you are ever good on the river.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

I think it's a bit of a toss-up and depends on your read. You're behind to any Ace except A6 and A8, and villain's decision to wait for the turn to raise is usually indicative of strength. On the other hand, the pot is laying you 11:1 to call the river. If I knew something about villain and thought he was reasonable, I'd fold. Otherwise, I might just call to see what he has and get a better sense of this play.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

IMHO, I think you'll find some donk "value raising" his diamond draw at least 1 in 12 times. You've gotta be 92% sure you're beat to lay this down.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

You should have no concern about folding the river.

Fold the turn. Edit: Eh, you might have set and two pair outs. But they might not all be clean.

And don't raise preflop OOP in the SB with that crap after two limpers. Thats a good raising hand if your first in from MP on.

Edit: wait. This is six max. Didn't realize that at first. You'll find more semi-bluffs there. Might want to call turn. A read would help. You could be up against two pair already, but it might be a flush or a striaight draw.

Probably fold the river. 2 made a straight to A4 or a two pair to A2. Villian could have a made straight already with 42. Flush draw didn't come in. You might be up against two pair already. Probably fold.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

yes this is sometimes a donk raising a flush draw. I do this quite often HU.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

[ QUOTE ]
jsut q798t ntopw =uoui never win at po ker.,

ajust ask rkursho. kurohsc. l kruchose. kurosh. there we go.

[/ QUOTE ]I really want to know what raillery was talking about.

Re: I never know if I should fold these
 

I'm apt to call down to find out what kinda player he is...you DO have a fairly decent hand here.