Holdem/foldem challenge
 

20-table SNG. No reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t12849)
Hero (t10224)
MP2 (t2072)
CO (t9635)
Button (t8456)
SB (t3718)
BB (t3745)
UTG (t36875)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t1200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t2575) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t2000</font>, Button calls t2000.

Turn: (t6575) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t5231 (All-In)</font>, Hero ???

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Did I leave the oven on?

(walks to the fridge, opens and asks Chris Ferguson)

Folds em.

But this seems too obvious to me and I know you're a good player and I'm not.

At this point you're still at 7K chips which is enough to bully the 3K chips around and play back at the larger stacks. If you lose, you're down to about 1800 and pretty much crippled.

He called your preflop raise and your flop bet. The only hand(s) I could see him doing this with would be pocket pairs or paint spades other than King or a King. I don't know if he'd pull a Stillman and call a raise with small pockets or not, but I think the chances of you being behind here and the situation you wind up in if you lose outweigh the odds you're still good at this point.

If I'm too weak-tight, I'd love to find out.

T

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I fold.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Hmmm... I put opponent on bluff, flush draw, AK-KJ, Axs, or pockets.

It it unusual for opponent to cold call a raise?

Because if it is then it is an easy fold.

How aggressive is opponent? I don't think there are many that call flop bet trying to take pot on turn, but there are some I guess.

It is weird that opponent pushed when checked to, that looks like flush draw. But the possibility of being way behind here is too much to call without read of opponent as desperate.

On the balance, I'd fold here.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Hard to see you being ahead of too many hands that would've called the pre-flop raise and flop bet here. Maybe Ax of Spades.

Best case scenario: You're ahead but could still lose.

Worst case scenario: You're dead to an 8.

Fold'em

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I fold but I'm guessing you had the best hand or this wouldn't be interesting [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I think I usually fold here, but feel some discomfort that I may be folding to a draw.

eastbay

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I call. AK seems way too unlikely with his no reriase preflop with that stack, and KQo is possible but eould be a pretty bad preflop call. That obviously does not mean he doesnt have it. Im more afraid of 99 then anything else. I think flush draw is possible too.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Hold 'em

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hold 'em

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Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did I leave the oven on?

(walks to the fridge, opens and asks Chris Ferguson)

Folds em.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why he would call the flop bet if he didn't have anything at all. If he was on a flush draw he would have (most likely) pushed the flop, not the turn.

IMO

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why he would call the flop bet if he didn't have anything at all. If he was on a flush draw he would have (most likely) pushed the flop, not the turn.

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I love this. So it is "standard" to push with a (possible) 35%er?

Dudes, I hold'em. But then I was never know for making good folds.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

sorry, this requires more. Many players call the flop bet simply becuase they expect you to bet the flop no matter what. Doyle has taught us all to do that. So when you check the turn, they (correctly) smell weakness. A large percentage of the poker communtiy shoves here no matter what. Now, I agree that PPs are very possible, but the more likely PPs are the lower ones. It could be that he has a King, but if so, he chose not to raise the flop with a flush draw out there (though many palyers do that too). So it comes down to pot odds. Are you good here more than 33% of the time? I say yes, and I call.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Hold'em.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I don't see anything but a pocket pair or bluff for villian which you are more often than not ahead of, I discount 99-QQ, but 55 is looking dangerous.
In anycase Hold-em.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

I didn't think villain has a K, but I thought he thought I didn't have a K. The way he pushed when I checked the turn me suspicious. Plus I was getting good pot odds at this point.

I called and villain had 22. Of course that doesn't make the call necessarily correct.

I have noticed that sometimes when you will check the turn or river people will fire and sometimes you can be fairly sure you are ahead.

I did sort of have a read that villain was aggressive. We were both big stacks. I was raising a lot and had raised the previous hand, so I thought when he called he might be trying to pick me off.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Close decision, wouldve gone with my gut.
I probably bet less on the flop though, 1500.

Betgo, what's your plan if Villain bets 2000 here and not allin?

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

To me this bet looks like a pair like 99 or TT. He figures that you don't have a K and wants to take the pot right there. This doesn't really look like he has a K, but it's possible. Borderline call.You probably win 40-50% of the time.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]
To me this bet looks like a pair like 99 or TT. He figures that you don't have a K and wants to take the pot right there. This doesn't really look like he has a K, but it's possible. Borderline call.You probably win 40-50% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I win 40-50% of the time, it is not a borderline call. My pot odds are much better than that.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]
I did sort of have a read that villain was aggressive. We were both big stacks. I was raising a lot and had raised the previous hand, so I thought when he called he might be trying to pick me off.

[/ QUOTE ]

with that info, i think it's pretty close. without it, i give him credit and fold.

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why he would call the flop bet if he didn't have anything at all. If he was on a flush draw he would have (most likely) pushed the flop, not the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love this. So it is "standard" to push with a (possible) 35%er?


[/ QUOTE ]

uh, yeah. i think the flush draw pushes here more often than it calls. (i personally would push a draw there, but that's not really what the question is).

on the other hand, i think Kx (or the unlikely 4x) will often call and try to get another bet from missed AJ or whatever. come on - what are the odds that hero has 2 clubs, especially given the Kc is out?

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Does anyone else think that most of the time you see a pocket pair here you are going to be beat?

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

Hold'em.

He probably has a flush draw plus at least one overcard, so he has a great chance of winning anyways and so made a decent play, but its not that good of a play because you aren't going to fold and he could have taken a free card to beat you.

Of course, what I'd actually do depends on what I put him on preflop and flop. If this isn't the first hand since I/he was moved at the table, then I have at least some reads. If I thought he was on a flush draw on the flop, i'd call...if I thought he just didn't buy I had anything on the flop, I'd call, if I thought he was playing a big hand strangely, I might fold.

Dennis

Re: Holdem/foldem challenge
 

fold.