My first NL post
 

Ive been playing No limit for about 2 days now. I had heard of people doing this but couldnt see myself ever making this laydown. What do you guys think?

My read on this guy was that he was decent. Had not done anything out of line since I had been at the table.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($547.40)
BB ($673.20)
UTG ($497.10)
Hero ($633.95)
CO ($659.41)
Button ($523.88)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $15, CO raises to $30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $120, CO raises to $350, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $476

Re: My first NL post
 

I like it

Re: My first NL post
 

Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Re: My first NL post
 

If it ain't AA, he's got balls of iron.

NLD

Re: My first NL post
 

i was faced with the same situation; but i KNEW i was going against aces. i get KK under the gun, and raise to $2.(25nl) a woman who is tighter than a 2 year old that michael jackson hasnt gotten to yet, raises 5. table folds to me. i raise to 10. she IMMEDIATELY goes all in for $48, more than i had at the time. i fold. she has no hesitation whatsoever in her raises and she hasnt played an hand since 1942.

Re: My first NL post
 

Why the [censored] would you 3-bet?

Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you 3-bet?

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Why the [censored] would you hijack my first thread in this forum [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you hijack my first thread in this forum [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Nice hand. Both of them. I never make that laydown though. Was this Party or skins, btw? And welcome to the forum. Hopefully your luck turns.

Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you hijack my first thread in this forum [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Nice hand. Both of them. I never make that laydown though. Was this Party or skins, btw? And welcome to the forum. Hopefully your luck turns.

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It was party. I hope my luck turns too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS-I just noticed in the FAQ that you guys dont like KK PF laydown posts. Oops [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you hijack my first thread in this forum [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Nice hand. Both of them. I never make that laydown though. Was this Party or skins, btw? And welcome to the forum. Hopefully your luck turns.

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It was party. I hope my luck turns too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS-I just noticed in the FAQ that you guys dont like KK PF laydown posts. Oops [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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At party I make that laydown like never.

Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you hijack my first thread in this forum [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Nice hand. Both of them. I never make that laydown though. Was this Party or skins, btw? And welcome to the forum. Hopefully your luck turns.

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It was party. I hope my luck turns too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS-I just noticed in the FAQ that you guys dont like KK PF laydown posts. Oops [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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At party I make that laydown like never.

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I thought you used to be a NL regular hence the alias and moved to limit or something.

um..don't 3 bet KK like that since you go broke vs AA and let other worse hands fold. (unless villan is donk and bad enough to go to the felt with less than KK)

I think fold was decent after he re-reraises you

Re: My first NL post
 

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um..don't 3 bet KK like that since you go broke vs AA and let other worse hands fold.

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So what is the best line. Call and then CR all in on most flops?

Re: My first NL post
 

So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

Re: My first NL post
 

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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Ok, against a donk or a maniac who will raise with "anything" I understand that a 3-bet is in order.

Im with you, but can you clearify why a call is much better than a 3-bet against a normal thinking player? I use to 3-bet here almost any time and that might be a leak of mine then.

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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Ok, against a donk or a maniac who will raise with "anything" I understand that a 3-bet is in order.

Im with you, but can you clearify why a call is much better than a 3-bet against a normal thinking player? I use to 3-bet here almost any time and that might be a leak of mine then.

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The problem with 3-betting is that it very often announces your hand as KK/AA (this is in normal situations with normal raising standards, i.e. blind defense situations this does not necessarily apply), so you lose a lot of value against JJ/QQ but still lose a lot against AA.

Re: My first NL post
 

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Why the [censored] would you 3-bet?

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This will fold worse hands and only leave AA, agreed.
But if you're not 3-betting, do you basically call villains re-raise and play it for trips value (playing weak post-flop)? What is your standard line on a ragged flop (bet, fold to re-raise)? On a flop containing a J or Q how far do you go to find out if you're up against JJ/QQ or AA (if that's the hand range you think you're up against)?

I see this is not a very clearly defined question, but with my kings running into aces I seem to loose my stack every time which cannot be good. Need to plug this leak!

Re: My first NL post
 

Villian minraises before the flop, imho that will mean AK, JJ, QQ much more often than AA, will that not make sence?

And IF you call and the flop comes something like 732 r, how do you normally proceed?

Re: My first NL post
 

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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If he raised more than a min-raised I'd feel better about flat-calling, but I don't mind a 3-bet vs a min-raise

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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It is actually a non-monotonic function. If he is really bad, then 3-betting is good, then as he gets better 3-betting get worse, then as he gets really good 3-betting gets better again. There are many people whom I will regularly 3-bet with KK. And without KK.

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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It is actually a non-monotonic function. If he is really bad, then 3-betting is good, then as he gets better 3-betting get worse, then as he gets really good 3-betting gets better again. There are many people whom I will regularly 3-bet with KK. And without KK.

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What do you think is the best against the normal good (but not greeeeeat) 2/4 6-max player at party, just call huh?

Re: My first NL post
 

honestly, im shocked. most limit players never fold here.
REALLY NICE LAYDOWN.
seriously.

Re: My first NL post
 

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So you guys means that 3-bet here is "always" wrong? And a call is megastandard.

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It's wrong unless they guy is a donk in some manner or another.

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It is actually a non-monotonic function. If he is really bad, then 3-betting is good, then as he gets better 3-betting get worse, then as he gets really good 3-betting gets better again. There are many people whom I will regularly 3-bet with KK. And without KK.

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What do you think is the best against the normal good (but not greeeeeat) 2/4 6-max player at party, just call huh?

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I'm not sure. It really depends on the player. Yeah, I guess just call. They are still pretty passive and won't be re-raising JTs here or whatever.

Re: My first NL post
 

If the 3rd raise with KK is a no-no, then what do you do when you're KK is an over pair to the flop? If you're in position than you're probably looking at a bet from any other over pair (AA, QQ, JJ). Then what do you do? You're then faced with a very difficult decision. An even worse situation is when you're out of position in this situation.

I think that against a reasonable opponent, a 3rd raise is not such a bad idea. If you get raised again you can let it go since the 4th raise is nearly always Aces. Of course if most of your stack will be in the pot after the 3rd raise you can just move in.

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If the 3rd raise with KK is a no-no, then what do you do when you're KK is an over pair to the flop? If you're in position than you're probably looking at a bet from any other over pair (AA, QQ, JJ). Then what do you do? You're then faced with a very difficult decision. An even worse situation is when you're out of position in this situation.

I think that against a reasonable opponent, a 3rd raise is not such a bad idea. If you get raised again you can let it go since the 4th raise is nearly always Aces. Of course if most of your stack will be in the pot after the 3rd raise you can just move in.

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because the person with aces will just call the 3rd raise, and not "cap" it, then you broke on the flop anyway. You also occaisonally let QQand worse play for set value, which means they play perfect pokah against you. Incidentally, with 100xbb stacks, and it's a reraised pot, you go broke with an overpair. no shame in that

*speaking of this, flexduck has had 2 different threads in MHNL recently where she HAS gotten away from KK in a reraised pot, but she's a pussy. literally.

Re: My first NL post
 

basically the smoothcall preflop line will get you stacked against AA but will also win you more against QQ, JJ.

Re: My first NL post
 

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What do you think is the best against the normal good (but not greeeeeat) 2/4 6-max player at party, just call huh?

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I'm not sure. It really depends on the player. Yeah, I guess just call. They are still pretty passive and won't be re-raising JTs here or whatever.

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But the reason to just call, if I understand things right here, is to get as cheap as possible away from AA and get maximum value against QQ & JJ + not giving away the hand OOP? Or is it more to it?

As I said before I use to 3-bet 95% of the time here, do I lose much EV (eg. $) on that in the long run?

Re: My first NL post
 

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basically the smoothcall preflop line will get you stacked against AA but will also win you more against QQ, JJ.

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So as long as it's head's up and there are no aces, queens, or jacks or a four-flush, you're going all the way?

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basically the smoothcall preflop line will get you stacked against AA but will also win you more against QQ, JJ.

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So as long as it's head's up and there are no aces, queens, or jacks or a four-flush, you're going all the way?

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I assume that after the flop you're just checking and calling unless you hit it hard?

Re: My first NL post
 

if you have a read on him being decent then NH, because once he reraises, and then he rererereraises, he has only one hand.

however i would not 3bet here against him. he will likely fold the hands which you match up well against and will have you in an awful spot when he has AA. when i have aa in his spot i say "k i push no one folds KK prelop with 100 bb stacks".

i will only 3 bet if its against a true donk or when i have a favorable table image for it, but due to me 8 tabling and the stakes im playing i very rarely having the crazy image.

Re: My first NL post
 

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basically the smoothcall preflop line will get you stacked against AA but will also win you more against QQ, JJ.

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Wow, Now I start to figuring out why a call is a good play (maybe the best most of the time). [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

1. If youre up against Aces you will be stacked 3-bet or not most of the time

2. If NOT up against aces it's a big chance Foe is gonna overplay QQ or JJ on a low flop not giving you credit for KK, AA.

I got it right? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: My first NL post
 

c/r all in when its not a huge over bet if you havent seen any scare cards.

Re: My first NL post
 

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because the person with aces will just call the 3rd raise, and not "cap" it, then you broke on the flop anyway. You also occaisonally let QQand worse play for set value, which means they play perfect pokah against you. Incidentally, with 100xbb stacks, and it's a reraised pot, you go broke with an overpair. no shame in that

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Last night was the closest I ever came to folding KK preflop. Have to go back and look at the HH, but basically, villain was a solid player based on the stats I had on him (this was my first hand at the table though) and I damn near folded after the preflop action. I didnt though. Flop was AAX. I pushed, lost to quad aces. Ouch.