Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

Commerce full table. Two limpers to me on the button with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I limp. SB completes and BB checks. Five to the flop.

FLOP: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I don't recheck my cards during a hand usually, but this hit so hard I did so just to be sure. SB (overall poor passive player) bets. Two callers to me, I raise. SB calls, one drops out, LP (overall poor aggressive player) thinks for ten seconds and calls. Three to the turn.

TURN: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet. SB calls. LP check-raises. I call. SB calls. Three to the river.

RIVER: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets. LP folds. I call.

Anyone play this different from beginning to end? Thanks!

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

LP can't have much here on the turn. What would he be thinking so long about on the flop if the 7 made him a straight? He'd have called with a T instantly, and probably with any pair too. He's likely now just picked up a flush draw. With the board now with two flush draws, I'd 3-bet the turn both to put maximum pressure on any draws and because I think I definitely have the best hand at this point.

$520 in the pot on the river, but I can't see you getting half of this pot against a poor passive player.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
LP can't have much here on the turn. What would he be thinking so long about on the flop if the 7 made him a straight?

[/ QUOTE ]I thought quickly about this also, but he is a bit of an oddball. I didn't state this originally, because everyone will have a different opinion on that definition. LP is a problem enough of someone who is difficult to read, but not so much overall because his holdings are usually dominated.

My key question is the turn. I know what you mean about the raise, but what if LP HAS a ten also (despite your read), wouldn't it be advantageous to NOT chase out SB since I'd be spliting the pot? Or would it be a better play to pump it regardless because of the muliple draw aspects? Also, since SB is definitely a poor chasing player, is it also a better play to make him pay since there's a better chance he'd do so over a solid player?

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

threebet the turn.
fold the river.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

3-betting the turn i would think is the right play. The chances that you are losing right now (and thus drawing dead to an offsuit queen) are slim, if you are in that situation, you don't even watn to call. But since there are so many draws, and the off chance that sb might even fold a ten to two more bets it's worth raising here. If he caps it on you then it might be time to re-evaluate. It sucks to pay off 80 more if he caps the turn but i think you have to do it, as he plays like a lone T.

If you raise and SB comes with for the 3 bets, then leads the river it's tough to overcall.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

"the off chance that sb might even fold a ten"

This is Commerce. You could threaten him with a machine gun and he's gonna call.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

If you're currently only tied, keeping SB in only nets you $20. That's if you two stay ahead of him. Not me: I don't care much about winning one (or one-half) more bet here if I can lose the whole pot, which ain't that hard to do given that board.

Besides, maybe the guy will call two more anyway. And, If he does, and then bets when a scare card comes on the river, you know you're in second place then.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

You need to drop down to 9/18 and work on your fundamentals. Thats an easy 3 bet on the turn b/c unless he's got exactly QT your ahead or at worst tied w/him. 3 betting allows you to trap the horrible player for more money if he is on a draw

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

"You need to drop down to 9/18 and work on your fundamentals."

Why 9-18? Can't he work on his game at 20-40? Also, the poor player had yet to call one bet on the turn. Isn't it possible a 2-bet would trap him but a 3-bet would scare him out?

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
My key question is the turn. I know what you mean about the raise, but what if LP HAS a ten also (despite your read), wouldn't it be advantageous to NOT chase out SB since I'd be spliting the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because if SB is on a draw, he's correctly calling, and you're losing EV in the long run. Let's say if he folds, you get half the pot as is. If he calls, you gain an extra $20 when he misses, and then you lose your potential 1/2 pot when he hits. If it's a flush draw, we'll say roughly 1/5 of the time. So you gain $80 4 times and then lose half the pot 1 out of 5 times. I'm too tired to do the exact math, but my point is, if you know that SB will fold for 2 more, you need to 3-bet. If he were drawing dead, and you and LP were chopping, then you want him in.

RESULTS
 

Thanks for all the replies. I needed to hear some tough love and Andy & Dazareth really made it clear. I must stop thinking of that one extra trapped bet when it could cost me the whole pot. As they said, if he's going to chase me down, make him pay more. It's not worth that one big bet to lose all of it.

LP actually folded face-up with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB showed Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and takes the pot.

LP asked me why I called the river. I just smiled wishing I could slap him silly...or myself.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to drop down to 9/18 and work on your fundamentals. Thats an easy 3 bet on the turn b/c unless he's got exactly QT your ahead or at worst tied w/him. 3 betting allows you to trap the horrible player for more money if he is on a draw

[/ QUOTE ]The focus of just calling had nothing to do with LP's check-raise, but the fact that I would lose profit by driving out SB. But as explained in my RESULTS, that was an incorrect play with a one-card straight in this situation also. Being that I had no where near the nuts with another card to come, reraising was the best play, but not exactly for the reasons you stated.

As for the 9/18, nah, I really enjoying drinking as much free bottled water as possible over on the hotel side. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

Two questions:
1) Is it standard to limp T7s on the button after two limpers? I used to play suited 1-gappers after two limpers, but I was losing money with some of the lower ones, so I increased my standard to limping after 3 limpers.
2) I usually call the river in spots like this hoping to chop. I understand that this may be a leak, so that's why I'm asking this question. To those of you who said fold, would your answer change if the river had not been a spade? If no, do you fold everytime someone bets when the board is a straight or a boat and you can't beat it?

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

1) For me, it depends on my opponents. If they're usually going to charge me the minimum when I'm behind or drawing, and pay me off if I hit, I'll play. Against tougher, more aggressive guys, I'll let it go.

2) Again, depends on the opponent. Against a passive, A-B-C-ish guy like the guy in this hand, I just can't see him betting into two opponents here without a hand that beats the board.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

Two answers:
1) I don't like playing suited gappers at all, but when it's the button with weaker limpers, as well as blinds who will rarely raise pf, I tend to loosen it up. Therefore, I felt this was a good time to play.
2) My call was terrible. But looking at 12+ bets in the pot and steaming after I got rivered, I did so anyway. A call when I cannot beat the board must come only when the bettor is the type that will almost always try to drive out choppers. This particular player was not a bluffer, but the $40 was almost worth the price of admission to see his cards.

Re: Flopped a straight - 20/40 Live
 

I call the river here much too often.

That said, uh...I would have 3-bet the turn so I'm not sure what I would have done on this river.

But given the way this hand played out, I would have folded the river.