Tipping dilemma...please help
 

Here's the deal. Once a week, I play at an East Bay card club called The Palace in Hayward, CA.

The game is $1-$2-$2/ no max buy-in no limit, $5 to bring it in. I love this game. I mean I love it a lot. I've made a killing during the last five weeks. I've gotten lucky to be sure. The locals there are crazy loose, and most are very easy to read. Anyhow, this is getting away from the main point...

However, something happened yesterday, which sort of unnerved me. I had just won a pot ~$2300 when I flopped a set against someone's overpair (no preflop raise). Then I tipped the dealer $2. This is my norm. I either tip $1 most of the time or $2 if the pot is “big” or I feel the dealer did something to make my experience at the table more comfortable or if he/she went out of their way to help me. I’m not the most generous tipper, but personally I don’t feel the dealers deserve any more than that. They deal 30ish hands an hour, and if everyone tipped $1 or $2, then they would get around $45 to $60 in tips per hour. I think that’s fair enough. However, I *know* they get much more than that because I’ve been around to see the tips for five weeks.

The dealer flung the $2 back to me. Not extremely violently, but more or less I could tell he was steaming. He was expecting more…much more.

A more generous patron made a comment. "Only $2??". I then tried to tip $3 to the dealer (this was probably a mistake). The dealer then flung those chips back to me too. His face was pretty red. I was pretty unnerved.

Now here's the deal. When someone wins a huge pot, the dealers are used to seeing several blue chips fly their way (blue = $5). Even when someone wins perhaps a $100 or $200 pot, it's not uncommon to see someone tip $3-$5. Granted, I'm not the most generous tipper, but I feel the dealers are pretty spoiled here. However, I was pretty insulted by the dealer’s gesture.

Several hands later, I won a small pot and tried to tip $1, but the dealer refused to take it.

Now I have a problem. I feel uncomfortable around this dealer, and it might actually affect my play. (I’m not actually sure it affects my decision making, but the dealer’s presence doesn’t help). The dealer isn’t being unprofessional in dealing the cards afterwards or outwardly expressing his clear displeasure. He’ll probably discuss it with a few colleagues while on a break peppered with a few choice expletives for how I “insulted” him. This does not concern me.

The problem is, I know I’ll be playing there at least once, perhaps twice a week, and I’ll see this particular dealer 3 or 4 times in the course of a session. It’ll be an awkward situation each time.

What should I do?
(a) Report his actions to the floor manager?
(b) Talk to the dealer directly?
(c) Ignore the situation and continue to attempt to tip the dealer?
(d) Ignore the situation and simply decline to tip this particular dealer anymore?
(e) Stop being a cheap bastard and start tipping $4 or $5 per pot?
(f) Other??

Comments and advice appreciated.

Garland

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

Ignore the situation and quit tipping him. Easiest solution.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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(d) Ignore the situation and simply decline to tip this particular dealer anymore?

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This is the correct answer.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

He's made it clear he doesn't want his tips from you. Abide by his wishes.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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Ignore the situation and quit tipping him. Easiest solution.

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Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

Don't offer him anymore tips. Dilemma solved!

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

(d) for sure. I think (a) as well.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

D is a dream come true

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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Ignore the situation and quit tipping him. Easiest solution.

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Agreed - if he doesnt want your "little" tip when you hit a big pot, screw him. Its not like he did anything different in the hand that you won.

Sorry - but the size of the pot doesnt change the fact that the dealer dealt out 7 cards to you.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

D

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

[ QUOTE ]
What should I do?
(a) Report his actions to the floor manager?
(b) Talk to the dealer directly?
(c) Ignore the situation and continue to attempt to tip the dealer?
(d) Ignore the situation and simply decline to tip this particular dealer anymore?
(e) Stop being a cheap bastard and start tipping $4 or $5 per pot?
(f) Other??

Comments and advice appreciated.

Garland

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D. And it isnt even close. But you knew that. Why waste our time with this? You want us to make it OK not to tip him? Please, live life not worrying what others think. At least this is what I read "into" this thread.

By the way, thats an insanely huge pot for such a blind structure. I mighta been bummed if I got a $2 toke too. Especially if I knew the other guy was gonna throw me $20-30 bux. But I would never express it. Nor would I deny the $2 bucks. And I would always say "TY".

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

Option F. I would continue to insult the dealer. Bring a roll of quarters and tip him $0.50 per pot. Tip all the other dealers normally. F that ungrateful 'hole.

I guess I'm just mean like that.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I'm a dealer and I can't imagine ever throwing back a tip (unless the player tipping me made some innapropriate comment while tipping me). I appreciate every tip I receive. If you tip me $2 I appreciate it. If you tip $100 I appreciate it. Either way I'm tapping it on the rack and saying thank you.

Although I would have tipped more than $2 on a $2,300 pot, if I ever had a dealer refuse my tip becuase he thought it wasn't enough you can be sure I would have gone and spoken to a floor person.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I personally dont let people sh1t on me. Id have asked what the problem was, then I would have stood up and called fr the floor, trying to bring as much attention to the situation as possible.Ask the floor how much you have to tip for a pot, and how much you are supposed to tip for a big pot, when he explains that there is no minimum, tell him the dealer was indicationg to you that there is.
You did nothing wrong, you gave the guy 2 dollars for dealing out a few cards over a 3 minute span of time. If he wanted to be a d1ck to you, Id return the favor and see if I could get him in trouble

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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I personally dont let people sh1t on me. Id have asked what the problem was, then I would have stood up and called fr the floor, trying to bring as much attention to the situation as possible.Ask the floor how much you have to tip for a pot, and how much you are supposed to tip for a big pot, when he explains that there is no minimum, tell him the dealer was indicationg to you that there is.
You did nothing wrong, you gave the guy 2 dollars for dealing out a few cards over a 3 minute span of time. If he wanted to be a d1ck to you, Id return the favor and see if I could get him in trouble

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I was thinking of going to the floor person in private after my session was done. The problem with doing what you suggested is that everyone on the table would have tipped more than me...much more. If I called the floor over and caused a fuss, what's likely to happen is that I bring much more negative attention to myself than the dealer.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Garland

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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I'm a dealer and I can't imagine ever throwing back a tip (unless the player tipping me made some innapropriate comment while tipping me). I appreciate every tip I receive. If you tip me $2 I appreciate it. If you tip $100 I appreciate it. Either way I'm tapping it on the rack and saying thank you.

Although I would have tipped more than $2 on a $2,300 pot, if I ever had a dealer refuse my tip becuase he thought it wasn't enough you can be sure I would have gone and spoken to a floor person.

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You should tap it on the table not the rack.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I would be extremely insulted if a dealer returned my tip. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. You should have talked to the floor person. Who knows if this a-hole has done this before? Oh, and don't tip him if thats what he wants.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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(d) for sure. I think (a) as well.

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Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

The answer is D. Tipping more for big pots is unnecessary--it isn't like he served you dinner or anything.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I tend to tip more not if the pot is big, but if the hand takes longer to deal. Lots of time spent pondering, of if a chip count is asked for.
I also like to tip a couple bucks at the end of a down if the dealer did a good job, fast and correct.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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I'm a dealer and I can't imagine ever throwing back a tip (unless the player tipping me made some innapropriate comment while tipping me). I appreciate every tip I receive. If you tip me $2 I appreciate it. If you tip $100 I appreciate it. Either way I'm tapping it on the rack and saying thank you.

Although I would have tipped more than $2 on a $2,300 pot, if I ever had a dealer refuse my tip becuase he thought it wasn't enough you can be sure I would have gone and spoken to a floor person.

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You should tap it on the table not the rack.

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Really? Every single dealer I have ever had taps it on the edge of the rack.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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Really? Every single dealer I have ever had taps it on the edge of the rack.



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ditto. Keeps the floor aware.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a dealer and I can't imagine ever throwing back a tip (unless the player tipping me made some innapropriate comment while tipping me). I appreciate every tip I receive. If you tip me $2 I appreciate it. If you tip $100 I appreciate it. Either way I'm tapping it on the rack and saying thank you.

Although I would have tipped more than $2 on a $2,300 pot, if I ever had a dealer refuse my tip becuase he thought it wasn't enough you can be sure I would have gone and spoken to a floor person.

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You should tap it on the table not the rack.

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Really? Every single dealer I have ever had taps it on the edge of the rack.

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It is supposed to be visable, if the floor is watching he will see it. If he isn't watching it hearing it doesnt' tell him a thing other than the delaer is making sure the palyers all look at him when he is getting a toke.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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Really? Every single dealer I have ever had taps it on the edge of the rack.



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ditto. Keeps the floor aware.

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The floor only needs to see it to see that it was a tip rather than something the delaer stole. Dealers hit it on the rack so the players will look at him and see him getting toked. Letting the floor hear it when his back is turned tells him nothing about it a player gave it to the dealer or if the dealer stole it.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I tap the rack because thats what management told me to do.

I will do it your way when I work for you.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I have no idea why you would ever consider tipping this dealer. Reporting his behaviour to management is a no brainer. Garland, you've been posting on this board for awhile now. Let management know that you'll be sure to make 20 or 30 thousand players aware of how poorly they manage their staff.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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I tap the rack because thats what management told me to do.

I will do it your way when I work for you.

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very nh

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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I tap the rack because thats what management told me to do.

I will do it your way when I work for you.

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This is the underlying problem in poker. The room management isn't familiar with the basics. When they are unfamiliar with the basic procedures i dealing poker how can they possibly train their dealers and floorstaff properly? This is a very minor point, but it shows the maangement of whatever room you work in watched some dealers do it without understanding why.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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This is the underlying problem in poker. The room management isn't familiar with the basics. When they are unfamiliar with the basic procedures i dealing poker how can they possibly train their dealers and floorstaff properly? This is a very minor point, but it shows the maangement of whatever room you work in watched some dealers do it without understanding why.



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Rather than continuing your career as a dealer, have you considered starting a consulting service? Seriously, every industry has people who teach those already in the business and they make very good money. Even successful companies pay for outside opinions. They realize the problem may be not knowing the problem. Companies sometimes suffer from "inbreeding." They promote from within and only use old ideas and thinking. They simply reshape it to fit new situations.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


This is the underlying problem in poker. The room management isn't familiar with the basics. When they are unfamiliar with the basic procedures i dealing poker how can they possibly train their dealers and floorstaff properly? This is a very minor point, but it shows the maangement of whatever room you work in watched some dealers do it without understanding why.



[/ QUOTE ]

Rather than continuing your career as a dealer, have you considered starting a consulting service? Seriously, every industry has people who teach those already in the business and they make very good money. Even successful companies pay for outside opinions. They realize the problem may be not knowing the problem. Companies sometimes suffer from "inbreeding." They promote from within and only use old ideas and thinking. They simply reshape it to fit new situations.

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I haven't dealt in quite some time. I have in the past consulted with a coupel smaller rooms. I mostly work wiht a coupel of online outfits these days.

Edit to add: Right now casinos don't want outside advice about poker. They can have the the worst floor staff and worst dealers in the country and the players still play. Casinoe do not see poker as a large money maker (card clubs are a different matter) so having players is enough for them.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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What should I do?
(a) Report his actions to the floor manager?
(b) Talk to the dealer directly?
(c) Ignore the situation and continue to attempt to tip the dealer?
(d) Ignore the situation and simply decline to tip this particular dealer anymore?
(e) Stop being a cheap bastard and start tipping $4 or $5 per pot?
(f) Other??

Comments and advice appreciated.

Garland

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I prefer a more vindictive approach. Save up the tips you would have given this dealer. When the next dealer shows up give him the tips and make sure the old dealer hears "the old dealer didn't want them." Poetic justice and something to make you smile and shrug the guy off.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

It's not Monday. Tipping threads are not allowed till Monday of each week. That way all 10 of them can stay on the first page for at least 5-6 days.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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[ QUOTE ]


What should I do?
(a) Report his actions to the floor manager?
(b) Talk to the dealer directly?
(c) Ignore the situation and continue to attempt to tip the dealer?
(d) Ignore the situation and simply decline to tip this particular dealer anymore?
(e) Stop being a cheap bastard and start tipping $4 or $5 per pot?
(f) Other??

Comments and advice appreciated.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer a more vindictive approach. Save up the tips you would have given this dealer. When the next dealer shows up give him the tips and make sure the old dealer hears "the old dealer didn't want them." Poetic justice and something to make you smile and shrug the guy off.

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haha, that's better than my solution by a LONG shot! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ni han indeed.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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haha, that's better than my solution by a LONG shot! ni han indeed.



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Echo here

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

for a massive $2300 pot in a 1-2-2 NL game, maybe you could have tipped more in the first place. and offering the dealer an extra dollar after he threw back the chips at you wasn't the smartest move either. but all in all, the dealer had no right to act as he did and you should just talk to the floor manager and also not tip him from now on. but then again, that would be bad for your image since the other players at your table next time won't know the history between you and that particular dealer and will just see you as a tight-cheap player. if the game is that good, it may be +EV to tip a bit more even to that dealer just for your image even if you don't like what you're doing.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

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You should tap it on the table not the rack.

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From 2+2's "The Professional Poker Dealers Handbook" (Paymer, Harris, Malmuth):
"...say "Thank you," and pick up the toke immediately, lightly tapping the edge of the rack ..."

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

My poker room manager has been in poker for a long, long, time.

I'm not going to argue or debate the pro's and con's of tapping the toke on the rack or the table, but I would suggest that there are probably very few policies in a poker room that could matter less.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

Tipping:

1) None if there was no flop, unless it ended up being a huge pot anyway, in which case $1.

2) $1 if there was a flop, and I made more than 2BB.

3) $1-$3 off any "decent" sized pot, depending on pot size and the particular dealer. Some dealers are really great at their job, they get more.

4) <$5 if it was a really gigantic pot (like the one in OP).

To summarize, I definitely think you should've tipped more than $2 for 2K pot... I mean, c'mon now. But given his completely unprofessional reaction, screw him if he wants to be a jackass, and if he doesn't want you to tip him - don't.

Kirk

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

[ QUOTE ]
My poker room manager has been in poker for a long, long, time.

I'm not going to argue or debate the pro's and con's of tapping the toke on the rack or the table, but I would suggest that there are probably very few policies in a poker room that could matter less.

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You are correct that this is a minor point, but it is the small things that add up to the overall guest experience. The one tiem hitting the rack becomes an issue is when a non tipper that bets large in the pit that wanders into thte poker room decides the dealer is doing it to embarass him and complains to his host.

I don't know your manager, but working at a job a long time does is not a measure of competance. He could be very good, or he coudl be one of the guys that has been working 10 years and has 6 months experience 20 times over.

I won't mention names, but I know of someone that managed a poker toom in a small market and he couldn't handle it. He was a nice enough guy, he just didn't understand poker. Then the company he worked for opened opened a very large room in a large market and they made him the poker room manager. This person knows no more about poker than someone that has dealt at Bellagio for a few months, but he now manages one fo the larger rooms in the country.

Re: Tipping dilemma...please help
 

I think dropping a red bird from a $2300 pot isn't over spending, but there's never an excuse for a dealer to act that way for any tip at all. Ever. The only thing they should ever do is say thanks, no matter how much.