Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

Party 30/60

Villain is your average 2+2 multitabling TAG. 15.4/11/2.94 after about 6K hands.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on bb.
villain in CO raises, sb calls raise, I 3 bet.
villain calls sb calls

flop is T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

checks, I bet, CO calls sb folds

Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, CO thinks about it and calls

River 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet (?), CO thinks and raise
I fold

I'm thinking this over of how badly I played this hand. Is check/call the river the best play in a situation like this or value bet the river?

Probably my biggest leak is not being able to lay down a hand on the river. I'm thinking back of all the times that I find myself in this position and almost always lose in a situation like this. Would a very tight but aggressive player in CO be willing to make a play at me on the river knowing that I 3 raise the flop and bet all the way? Nice size pot.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

Check the river. He'll valuebet two pair and you save being raised by a king. Think about it...if he has something like A10 or JJ or QQ, etc, a bet will go in if you check and he's a good player. So why not just check and avoid being raised...the hands that would have called will likely bet.

Jeff

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

you played it fine, but i'd check call the river here.

you're going to win a surprising amount of the time IMO, and you wont put in a double bet that pisses you off royally when he shows you KJ off.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

I had considered check/calling the river but his stats gave me an impression that he would most likely just check the river unless he has a K or better after I showed strength on flop and turn. Yet I think he would call a bet with hands like QQ, A10 etc. His raise is bad news.

What about the fold? would an ultra tight player be willing to make a play here on this situation?

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

you played it fine, i woulda bet the river and prolly folded as well when he raised.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

That 2.94 is a pretty aggressive post-flop stat. Don't you think there's a small chance he has QQ and thinks it now less likely that you have a K and made a thin value raise, expecting to fold if reraised? That hesitation on the end could represent KQ or KJ and afraid of a possible AK, or it could be QQ, thinking it's very likely you could have JJ or such.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

mmm..

a player with 2.94 aggression waiting until the river to raise a KJ or KQ doesn't click for me.

bet/call on river is fine, maybe I'm stubborn but no way I lay this down given size of pot on the river.

also a hand like AT would not value bet the river here IMO but thats assuming his read on you is a multitabling tag as well.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
That 2.94 is a pretty aggressive post-flop stat. Don't you think there's a small chance he has QQ and thinks it now less likely that you have a K and made a thin value raise, expecting to fold if reraised? That hesitation on the end could represent KQ or KJ and afraid of a possible AK, or it could be QQ, thinking it's very likely you could have JJ or such.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 2.94 bugged me quite a bit. Hence why I posted this seeking advice. There were a million scenarios going through my head during this river but ended up folding. I figured the only logical hands that I could beat would be QQ, JJ, or possibly JQ trying to blind steal and missed his draw. There were a lot more hands that he would've beat me though in this situation.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
mmm..

a player with 2.94 aggression waiting until the river to raise a KJ or KQ doesn't click for me.

also a hand like AT would not value bet the river here IMO but thats assuming his read on you is a multitabling tag as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, I was thinking there's no way he would bet a hand like A10 or QQ on the river if I checked given the way the hand was played. When I bet and he raised I wanted to fold but that 2.94 number is just begging for attention.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

This is a reasonably easy call. By the way, he bets AT here when you check the river almost all the time.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, he bets AT here when you check the river almost all the time.

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If this is the case, why are we betting?

Jeff

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a reasonably easy call. By the way, he bets AT here when you check the river almost all the time.

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Really? I would agree most players would probably bet here if checked to but a 15.4 vpip player? I'm not too sure about this one, he's way too tight for my liking. It would make sense if there's no A or K on board.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this is the case, why are we betting?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I didn't play the hand. Given how it played out though, you pretty much have to call.

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a reasonably easy call. By the way, he bets AT here when you check the river almost all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I would agree most players would probably bet here if checked to but a 15.4 vpip player? I'm not too sure about this one, he's way too tight for my liking. It would make sense if there's no A or K on board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget the VIP, the relevant stat on the river is the 29.4

Re: Standard laydown or outplayed?
 

the way this hand played out AT will not bet river I'm quite certain.

based on how aggressive this player is AT, KJ, KQ all would've raised the flop to see where he's at.

looking over it again, I think he raised a missed draw or something like AJ, AQ.

edit: another possible hand is 55, but if he hit a 2outer on the river good for him, gotta pay him off.