$40/$80 hand AKs
 

I thought about this one for a while and I'm truly stumped about what the best play would be.

You raise UTG + 1 with AdKd in a full game. A TAG who you respect and who respects your play but probably views you as being slightly weak tight 3 bets you in cutoff. A huge donkey calls from the BB, and you decide to just call (cap here or no?) Donkey does a wide assortment of strange plays, including checking obvious monster hands, betting no draw no pair into 3 people, and the usual donkey loose preflop calls.

Flop: Td Ts 3c. Checked to cutoff who bets, donkey calls, you call.

Turn: 9d. Donkey from BB bets. your play?

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

Well personally, if the TAG views me as weak tight, I'm going to raise to try and knock him out, and get it HU with the donkey, who could have an OESD when he bets here. Very rarely is the donkey full, so you've got outs even if he does call the raise with any pair.

If the TAG three bets into the donkey, then I have no idea what I'm going to do. Probably call and hope to catch, and hope i'm not drawing dead to quad tens.

I think a raise here is your best play if it can knockout the TAG.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

When a donkey donk bets you must raise. If TAG 3 bets you the hand is over. Check the river unimproved and expect to take it down most of the time. Now if donkey 3 bets I don't know. Also cap preflop with the monkey in the middle.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
When a donkey donk bets you must raise. If TAG 3 bets you the hand is over. Check the river unimproved and expect to take it down most of the time. Now if donkey 3 bets I don't know. Also cap preflop with the monkey in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? So you don't even give the donkey a pocket pair?

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

I fold here. Sometimes he might have picked up a draw, but the chance of CO having a real hand plus donkey is too great to make it worth chasing the few outs I have, which may also be reverse dominated / not good.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold here. Sometimes he might have picked up a draw, but the chance of CO having a real hand plus donkey is too great to make it worth chasing the few outs I have, which may also be reverse dominated / not good.

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You do realize the hero has an Ace-high flush draw, right? Even with the possibility of a boat toting donkey, I don't think folding is on the menu. I think our hero has a lot more than "few" outs in this situation in the long run.

SpaceAce

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]

Really? So you don't even give the donkey a pocket pair?

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[ QUOTE ]
Donkey does a wide assortment of strange plays, including checking obvious monster hands, betting no draw no pair into 3 people

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If your description is accurate then donkey will often have nothing here. TAG, however, has a hand you want to pressure out.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

I can't really think of a good reason not to raise here.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

yup missed the flush draw. call [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this one for a while and I'm truly stumped about what the best play would be.

You raise UTG + 1 with AdKd in a full game. A TAG who you respect and who respects your play but probably views you as being slightly weak tight 3 bets you in cutoff. A huge donkey calls from the BB, and you decide to just call (cap here or no?) Donkey does a wide assortment of strange plays, including checking obvious monster hands, betting no draw no pair into 3 people, and the usual donkey loose preflop calls.

Flop: Td Ts 3c. Checked to cutoff who bets, donkey calls, you call.

Turn: 9d. Donkey from BB bets. your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise here and the TAG folds, he had either AK or AQ, neither of which you want to fold. He is not laying down JJ-AA, just call.

Edit: If you miss your draw and Donk checks, you can bet-fold the river. You may get the TAG to lay down AK, which would be cool.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

cap preflop. if you cant back up a logical reason for why calling is better then i think youre missing alot of value.

i dont see any reason to raise the turn. the tag isnt folding a better hand. you may get 3bet which will lose the donkey when he woudl have called for 1 bet when raised.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

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I can't really think of a good reason not to raise here.

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Because facing a 3 bet on the turn is a good thing?

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

I was not the hero this hand. I was the player in cutoff. Hero is a solid, sometimes weak tightish player. I saw the wheels turning in his head on the turn as he folded. I had QQ and raised the donkey on the turn. He said he folded because he knew I was going to raise, which I thought was a good read on his part, but I was unsure whether or not his fold is a good one.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

So you would never fold AK and 99 on down to a turn raise by a solid, weak tightish player? SUre you had QQ in this case, but I bet the only hands you 3 bet against him here are KK and AA.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

I was the TAG this hand in cutoff. The hero mucked his hand on the turn, which really surprised me. He reasoned he knew I would raise on the turn if he called, and probably 3 bet him if he raised. While in this particular hand it would probably be true (i had black QQ), I think he has way too many possible outs plus the chance that the donkey is betting air and he may get me to fold behind him to not raise the turn.

Anyway, I did indeed raise the turn and the donkey called. The river was a 5d, I bet and got called by 95o (not a typo, I've been playing poker for 2 years now and I still see many amazing things almost every time i sit down and play.)

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

i don't think this guy is "slighty weak-tight" if he folded the nut flush draw on the turn, in addition to up to 6 possible outs (which ended up being live).

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

if it is true that the BB has a propensity to bet with nothing , then I like raising the turn with our flushdraw+two overcards better than calling. Given that the CO's hand is still not defined, and the CO views the hero as weak tight, we may induce the CO to lay down a better hand(The CO will fold AK too and that is also wonderful) The hero has to call the turn anyways, so investing one more BB to possibly increase the hero's chance of winning this decent sized pot is worth it in my opinion.

Re: $40/$80 hand AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
He said he folded because he knew I was going to raise, which I thought was a good read on his part, but I was unsure whether or not his fold is a good one.

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I think his fold is bad even if you have a notarized document promising you'll raise the turn.