AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

Here's the situation. This villian in this hand hates me. He's a very tight player and I have taken a couple of big pots off him. He's totally ABC, except against me. Against me he is the trickiest sob that ever lived and loose as hell. He reraised me every single time with any ace, and played his draws super aggressively. That having been said, do you play it this way?

(converter is kinda effed up sorry)

50/100 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]3 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, [color=#666666]4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, [color=#CC3333]BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the situation. This villian in this hand hates me. He's a very tight player and I have taken a couple of big pots off him. He's totally ABC, except against me. Against me he is the trickiest sob that ever lived and loose as hell. He reraised me every single time with any ace, and played his draws super aggressively. That having been said, do you play it this way?

(converter is kinda effed up sorry)

50/100 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]3 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, [color=#666666]4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, [color=#CC3333]BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the point of the turn raise. The way you describe him, he prolly thinks you are FOS and he is not folding a pair, and you have the second-nut non-pair hand. Let him bluff again on the river and call down.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

i'm in agreeance on the turn raise- he's not laying down jack here given your description

i call down here.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

Turn raise is just vast spewage. Given the read, his turn raise means one of two things:

1) Your hand is good.
2) Your hand isn't good.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] You can't be sure of which because he's so tricky against you .

Just call down.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

Actually, given your history, I'm not even sure you need to pay off the whole way here. If he thinks you have A-hi and he wants you to fold cuz he doesn't have anything, why would he lead the flop...I'd think he'd go for a stronger play like a c/r. Therefore, my guess is he's hit and I'd be tempted to just muck it and wait for a real hand.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

so raising him once on the turn is not good?

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, given your history, I'm not even sure you need to pay off the whole way here. If he thinks you have A-hi and he wants you to fold cuz he doesn't have anything, why would he lead the flop...I'd think he'd go for a stronger play like a c/r. Therefore, my guess is he's hit and I'd be tempted to just muck it and wait for a real hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

he knows I know he's FOS if he checkraises the flop. a bet is his "strongest" play here, because it looks like he's betting and he expects me to raise. but since I know this, and I know that he knew this, the bet was actually weak to me.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

your thinking too much for a very small pot.

let it go and wait for a better spot.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
your thinking too much for a very small pot.

let it go and wait for a better spot.

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I'm sorry but that's just poor analysis. If you can't think like this heads up, you have a major hole in your poker game.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, given your history, I'm not even sure you need to pay off the whole way here. If he thinks you have A-hi and he wants you to fold cuz he doesn't have anything, why would he lead the flop...I'd think he'd go for a stronger play like a c/r. Therefore, my guess is he's hit and I'd be tempted to just muck it and wait for a real hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

With this read:

[ QUOTE ]
Against me he is the trickiest sob that ever lived and loose as hell ... and played his draws super aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think folding this hand is an option. IMO, the probability that you have the best hand + the probability that you will improve to the best hand warrants a call on all 3-streets.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but that's just poor analysis. If you can't think like this heads up, you have a major hole in your poker game.

[/ QUOTE ]

um, he's extremly tricky/aggressive.. this is your read correct?

why would you try to get aggressive with no pair/no draw when the above is your read?

I also don't like putting in 2BB on the turn for a 4BB pot based on a "feeling" that the other player knows that I know that he knows that I know??? You made a very poor play at the pot when you have absolutely no fold equity based on your read and drawing to at best 6 outs.

and after you've made a play at the pot and it failed, you still call down? Please don't tell me I have a hole in my game when your asking for an opinion on such poor play.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but that's just poor analysis. If you can't think like this heads up, you have a major hole in your poker game.

[/ QUOTE ]

um, he's extremly tricky/aggressive.. this is your read correct?

why would you try to get aggressive with no pair/no draw when the above is your read?

I also don't like putting in 2BB on the turn for a 4BB pot based on a "feeling" that the other player knows that I know that he knows that I know??? You made a very poor play at the pot when you have absolutely no fold equity based on your read and drawing to at best 6 outs.

and after you've made a play at the pot and it failed, you still call down? Please don't tell me I have a hole in my game when your asking for an opinion on such poor play.

[/ QUOTE ]

well he had J6, so sure.

the only hand I thought he would play the way he did was a draw. I guess I got lucky.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

There is nothing wrong with a call and a turn raise with Ace high, its a common move (I think old school PeterRus HUSH when I do it). However as the other posters point out: 1. If he is going to three-bet you on the turn and you can't fold, then your line is usually very bad (unless its a old school mikel raise to induce a bluff three-bet because you want to escalate the confrontation). The raise is fine for a free showdown, Angeloean last $ in the pot, semi-bluff type thingy. 2. Its only good if you think your AK might be good. I kinda agree with the guy who said you might just give it up (ala Jim Brier calling bet after bet with unimproved AK not my cup of tea) since his bet could mean a hand, but you were there.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

well you might want to mention in your read that the player plays like a complete donk against you.

but even then, I wouldn't be result oriented no way I'm going to put in that many bets on the turn with no hand.

just call it down.

nh

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

well honestly I thought I tried to point that out.

in retrospect, I might agree with no turn raise, though I thought it was important for metagame purposes and because I thought I was ahead to put in at least one raise. I thought there was a decent chance I could knock him off a lower pp or something like second board pair. and as I mentioned I thought I might just be ahead because of his weird line and out history together.

ty for the responses to everyone.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought there was a decent chance I could knock him off a lower pp or something like second board pair.

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Given your description, I doubt this will happen (unless you know something we don't). Also given your description, I think a call-down is your best option, as you will be seeing the showdown anyway, and raising doesn't gain you much.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

am I missing something? why, against a loose, tricky, aggressive, player, are you whipping it out on the turn? if you think he's FOS, let him bluff his way down unless you run into something good, because it sounds like more often than not he's going to play back at you.... and i have no idea, other than a bluff, what you're trying to represent with that turn raise...

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
am I missing something? why, against a loose, tricky, aggressive, player, are you whipping it out on the turn? if you think he's FOS, let him bluff his way down unless you run into something good, because it sounds like more often than not he's going to play back at you.... and i have no idea, other than a bluff, what you're trying to represent with that turn raise...

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Okay already. I get that you guys don't agree with the turn raise. Enough.

For what it's worth, I was trying to represent what I had--the best hand.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, I was trying to represent what I had--the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought there was a decent chance I could knock him off a lower pp or something like second board pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be honest to yourself, friend.

Nice hand in this case, but you are behind as often as you ahead, on average.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

dude, you asked how we would play it. we disagreed with you. if you just want validation, or are going to argue that the results validate your line... don't bother posting. if you "knew" you had the best hand, you should cap the turn.

see how silly that sounds?

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
your thinking too much for a very small pot.

let it go and wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad reasoning. Either it's +EV or -EV to play in this spot. If it's +EV, no matter how slight, he needs to play.

As for the turn raise, I don't mind it occasionally. In fact, I kind of like it as a mix-up to your play against this specific opponent. But I definitely would suggest against making it a standard play to raise A-high on the turn.

Re: AQs against a player who hates my guts
 

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you asked how we would play it. we disagreed with you. if you just want validation, or are going to argue that the results validate your line... don't bother posting. if you "knew" you had the best hand, you should cap the turn.

see how silly that sounds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want validation. I wanted advice, and I got it. It was just a little overdone with everyone piling on what is, if it is an error, a pretty marginal one.

Obviously capping the turn is out of the question, but that wasn't even a part of the hand analysis. The turn raise is for many reasons, and those include the fact that I might have the best hand. Why do you have to take it too far just to try to make your point? Be reasonable when you respond.

(What is with some of the posters here? Is everyone 16?)