help me
 

turning stone 20 40
fold to me in the cut i razzzzze it up wit JQ off
blinds call flop is KQ6 3 suits
sb is has got to be 90 and will never bet or raise unless he has a 2 pair minimum will just call every pair down
bb seems to open preflop with bad hands alot but havent seen him donk bet like this yet
sb cks, bb leads ,i call first mastake?

the guys range is basically any Q or any K or 10 9
i think they will almost auto defend my raises so even hands like k2 or Q2 are possible
anyways i called the flop so did the old tymer

the turn came a blank sb cks bb bets again and we both called again
river a 10 came off the bb bet and i folded

i appreciate the help guys
these donk bets are hard to tell where you stand

Re: help me
 

zero replies im a obvious loser i cant even get one reply i spent 45 minutes typing the damn hand out

Re: help me
 

I dont raise in the CO with QJo.

If I did, and were bet into on the flop, i could fold second pair here and move on.

If I called and he bet at me again, I fold and wonder why I called the flop bet.


Tex

Re: help me
 

Turn fold is awful.

Raise flop, check behind on turn/bet turn if you think you have him beat.

You realize you have 10 outs even if behind on the turn right?

Re: help me
 

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]!

Re: help me
 

"I dont raise in the CO with QJo.

If I did, and were bet into on the flop, i could fold second pair here and move on.

If I called and he bet at me again, I fold and wonder why I called the flop bet."

If that whole post wasn't a joke, you might want to pretend it was.

Re: help me
 

10 outs? 2 queens, and three jacks, hmmmm...lets see, that's 5 outs, where are the rest, assuming he is behind. He has no straight draw and no flush draw, and if the bettor has KQ or KJ he's all but dead.

Name the 10 outs.

and BTW....he folded the riv not the turn.

Re: help me
 

why dont you offer some advice to the OP instead of taking the easy way out and bashing what i said without offering any reason as to why?

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Sorry i was still vomiting.

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do you think that the bettore is going to check top pair on this kind of a flop to the PF raiser? i dont. what do you think he's betting here, guru?

and btw, i'm glad i can make you vomit.

Re: help me
 

i guess i should have raised flop bet turn and ckd river

Re: help me
 

i don't think anyone is providing any real reasons for why one move is preferred over another. pre-flop is fine. on the flop you have to raise it. sure he could be betting top pair, but he could also be betting a weak queen, aj, at, and a lot of other hands you beat. also, by just calling, you allow the sb in for cheap, and make things more complicated for yourself. you want to be the aggressor in these blind-stealing situations because people so often assume you're fos and try to take the initiative in the hand. the river fold is fine imo since i doubt the guy is going to fire 3 barrels into 2 opponents. regardless of what he had, though, you need to raise the flop.

Re: help me
 

Responding to posted bad advice is a good way for both the OP and the poster of said bad advice to learn.

I play pretty tight. I think open raising from the CO is very standard with QJo. How much better a hand do you need?

Re: help me
 

dont call the turn if you are gonna fold the river.

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I raise the flop. If called in btoh places, I check the turn planning to call a bet, but will not overcall. If only one guy calls, I fire turn and check river behind.

Re: help me
 

Obviously raising from the cutoff there is fine. Postflop is really player dependant but I dont have any problem with just calling the flop bet. On the turn, if you decide you want to continue, you may as well raise to get father time out behind you. If he is that weak passive he'll probably fold a king or a better queen if he has either.

The river is close but I like a fold you cant beat much of anything at this point. Again just player dependant really.

-Staveg 12 (as you like to call me)

Re: help me
 

I guess i play too tight to raise CO with QJo. Maybe I should add that to my gaem, i dont know. But from my experience, when I raise PF and a player bets into me on a flop of KQ blank, he usually has top pair or a J10. I release on the flop, and maybe that's wrong, but for sure it is player dependent.

When i thought about the advantages of raising the turn, I agree that if you call this flop raising the turn is your best play.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i play too tight to raise CO with QJo. Maybe I should add that to my gaem, i dont know. But from my experience, when I raise PF and a player bets into me on a flop of KQ blank, he usually has top pair or a J10. I release on the flop, and maybe that's wrong, but for sure it is player dependent.

When i thought about the advantages of raising the turn, I agree that if you call this flop raising the turn is your best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are players that I would fold to for one bet on the flop, this guy just didnt sound like one of them. As far as folding preflop goes, I doubt you give up a lot, but Im sure you are good enough to play this hand for a profit. Im just not crazy about opening that tight because not only do you give up a little value folding that hand, I think it becomes that much easier for you opponents to narrow down your hand postflop.

Re: help me
 

I'm going to get blasted all to hell for this- I limp CO with QJo.

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No big deal, but I would try to stop doing it. Open limping is no good that close to the button. I pretty much never do it If I'm not UTG or UTG+1. Im not sure if it could be right in third or fourth position, I just dont really do it.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to get blasted all to hell for this- I limp CO with QJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever steal?

Re: help me
 

Not enough, and rarely from the CO [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

From the button I try to steal with a lot more hands, including all K-high, A-high, pairs, and big suited connectors. But then again, given that description, I might not be "stealing".

Are there any hands you're just calling with in the CO?

What hands are you stealing with on the button? i.e, what's the most junk you'll steal with?

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
what's the most junk you'll steal with?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have reads on the blinds, if they're tight enough, it can become correct to steal with any 2 on the button, moreso in the SB.

I don't see any reason not to open with QJo in the CO. Easy open even 2 and 3 otb.

Re: help me
 

raise the flop a) to try to push out old tymer and b) try to get free card on turn and c) confuse the enemy.

and if you're gonna call the turn be prepared to call the river unimproved. So often on this board I see posts which read 'where did i go wrong here' and it's calling the turn and folding on the river time and time again. If you're gonna showdown 2nd pair, decide to do it at the turn, not change your mind at the river. You didn't have pot odds to see the river nayway. 45 minutes to type 13 lines?

Re: help me
 

Firstly preflop is as standard as it gets not raising here is a serious mistake, so I wouldnt listen to rockboys advice.

On the flop I probably just fold this without a decent read otherwise you want to raise, bet the turn and take a free showdown. You do this hoping he is on a draw or has a weak Q you also preferably get SB out. If he does have a King you lose 1SB less as you save that by not needing to bet the river.

River fold is fine, most sane opponents will have you beat here.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
turning stone 20 40
fold to me in the cut i razzzzze it up wit JQ off
blinds call flop is KQ6 3 suits
sb is has got to be 90 and will never bet or raise unless he has a 2 pair minimum will just call every pair down
bb seems to open preflop with bad hands alot but havent seen him donk bet like this yet
sb cks, bb leads ,i call first mastake?

the guys range is basically any Q or any K or 10 9
i think they will almost auto defend my raises so even hands like k2 or Q2 are possible
anyways i called the flop so did the old tymer

the turn came a blank sb cks bb bets again and we both called again
river a 10 came off the bb bet and i folded

i appreciate the help guys
these donk bets are hard to tell where you stand

[/ QUOTE ]

From your description of the BB you should deffinately raise the flop, bet the turn, and check the river if unimproved. However, if the old timer cold calls your flop raise then i'd check/fold the turn and river unimproved.

And I stroooooongly disagree with anyone saying that QJ is not a good hand to open-raise with on the Co. I think that's weak/tight poker.

Re: help me
 

Preflop is fine.

On the flop, you need to raise. There are three reasons to raise. The first is to isolate yourself with the bettor. You don't want someone with a naked pair drawing cheaply for that second pair, and there is a very good chance that you'll get the 90 y/o to lay down a large range of hands including some hands that have you beat (K10, KJ, K9, AQ, etc...). The second reason you need to raise is because you want to find out where you are. If BB pops you back for a 3 bet, then you know you are beat. By just calling, you have no idea where you are, and you are playing defense the rest of the hand. The third reason to raise is as a value raise. You could very well be ahead of him already, and it is important to be aggressive and maximize these small edges.

Once you call the turn, you better be calling the river. You don't have the odds calling on the turn if you are positive you are behind, but since you obviously weren't sure if you were behind or not, calling the turn and folding the river is just plain silly. The pot is big enough now where you have decent enough odds to put in that call on the river.

Re: help me
 

Ugh.

The raise pre-flop is ridiculously standard. Even one spot earlier is super standard. Open limping here is silly. folding is silly as well.

Call the flop, call the turn, call the river.

Boring. Next hand.

Re: help me
 

Am I the only one who raises JTo from the CO?

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who raises JTo from the CO?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this situation, no. But, I am intereste to hear what others say, as its one of thos trouble hands for me.

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no i raise JTo from the CO every time.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
no i open raise JTo from the hijack every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

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not every time but a decent amount of the time i'd guess.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no i open raise JTo from the hijack every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]


you open JTo from the CO-1? i dont even do that and im a LAG [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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maybe that's why he's down 580 BB ??

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I just looked and I"ve raised first in with JTo in the hijack whenever it's been folded to me.

Is this bad?

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just looked and I"ve raised first in with JTo in the hijack whenever it's been folded to me.

Is this bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, no. I guess it may depend on your Shania and who is yet to act behind you, but I doubt it is a losing play.

Re: help me
 

Found leak one. opening a few too many hands from the hijack...

JT will now be hitting the muck.

Re: help me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Found leak one. opening a few too many hands from the hijack...

JT will now be hitting the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i generally muck it w/o some seriously weak tight opposition behind me. however JTs is a raise.

Barron