What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/ETC?
 

Too many morons and every freaking college kid who plays poker longer than 6 months (winner or loser) tells me they are pro. I often have conversations with poker players when it's slow. I ask them their bankroll as they sit at the 2/4 NL and they said it's $600 or $2500 and they have actually only been playing for 3 months but are gonna hit it big. They leave out the part that they are already down that much or more in their "learning" phase.

IMO, I don't consider anyone a pro unless they A) Do it as their sole income AND B) Make at least $100k+ / year.

I would consider someone a semi-pro that A) Do it as sole income OR B) as a side job AND C) making at least $50k+ a year.

The people who make $10k-$40k/year I think are also something but I don't know what to call them.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
The people who make $10k-$40k/year I think are also something but I don't know what to call them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I could easily live on 40k/year, if I made all my income from poker and it totaled 40k, I would consider myself a professional poker player - and I'm not sure how you could make a reasonable argument that I wasn't.

In any case, I don't think $x is a good way of determining who a professional is. I think anyone whose income comes primarily from playing poker is, by definition, a professional poker player (exception: a profitable player who makes enough to sustain themselves, but makes more from poker-related endorsements, is clearly also a pro). However, if you're not making enough to cover living expenses including things like rent/mortgage, I don't think you qualify. Thus, most college students really don't - besides, while you're a full-time student, you're not a professional anything. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Semi-professional is a trickier question. I consider myself one, because poker pays the rent for me, but I'd have to play more regularly to make it my main/sole source of income (if I could at all). It's a tricky label to apply though, and I can see a lot of debate on what makes someone fit into this category. I'd say anyone who depends on poker income, but doesn't use it as their main source of income, is defined as a semi-pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I consider someone a pro if they A) do it for money, and B) charge more than $500 a trick [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The people who make $10k-$40k/year I think are also something but I don't know what to call them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I could easily live on 40k/year, if I made all my income from poker and it totaled 40k, I would consider myself a professional poker player - and I'm not sure how you could make a reasonable argument that I wasn't.



[/ QUOTE ]

Could you live on 40K a year paying for your own health insurance, etc?

I make almost exactly that in my day job, but if I was paying for similar insurance, retirement, all that stuff out of my own pocket, I would be far from comfortable.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I fail to see why it matters.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I use poker as my sole income source and live off of it, I make about 1k a month....sometimes I call myself pro to impress freshmen girls at parties for the win.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

[/ QUOTE ]


or maybe it's because it doesn't [censored] matter?

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

[/ QUOTE ]

How do other players self-identifying as "pros" effect you in any way, shape or form?

Is it just that you'd like to have this badge to wear all for yourself because you rule and they don't?

I don't get it.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

[/ QUOTE ]

or maybe you think it matters because you're option E) marginally winning player who wants to tell people he's pro because it's cool but wants to avoid looking like all the other donkeys who call themselves pro, but in reality is one of those donkeys himself

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain why it matters for us losing players please


is this for pickin up girls? let dude tell them whatever they want cockblocker

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/ETC?
 

every first year player drafted in baseball makes $800 a month and they are professional baseball players. so since they don't make what the big leaguer's make are you going to take a "title" away from them?

maybe a different arguement, i dunno. there really are a lot of yayhoo's out there that don't make any money that think they play poker professionally but they don't. i think you are a pro if you play as your main source of income no matter how little. if you are living off of 3 tables of 2/4 then so be it.

i personally could care less what anyone considers themselves, its a game.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do other players self-identifying as "pros" effect you in any way, shape or form?

Is it just that you'd like to have this badge to wear all for yourself because you rule and they don't?

I don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, I don't consider anyone a pro unless they A) Do it as their sole income AND B) Make at least $100k+ / year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah crap, I only made $99,000 last year so I guess I am not a pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I gotta admit buddy. It's pretty unimportant what people call themselves and I guess I don't see why you're so interested? I'm definately not in the D) category and I couldn't care less if some joe schmo who's living off gringing out 15 dollars an hour live is called a pro or a semi-pro or a nobody. Titles don't matter.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

A pro is an expert in a given field, not necessarily someone who makes their living at it. I might be able to make 50k or 100k or whatever your cutoff is a year 8 tabling 2/4 or 3/6, yet be wholly unable to beat higher limit games. Would that make me a pro? Similarly, is someone who can beat 30/60 for >1 bb/100 not a pro because they hold a regular job as well?

OP sounds like he is bitter at college students for some reason. Everyone of every age/race/gender thinks they are god's gift to poker. This makes poker games profitable. So either lose the arrogance, or find another profession. I am definitely not a pro, but I can beat x limit at y rate, and that is what matters. The numbers are everything; a label means nothing.

Senni

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably why you are option D) losing player, can't relate

[/ QUOTE ]

Your snappy sarcastic reply obviously scores big points on 2+2 (or as I think of it, a.ssholeland), but actually the guy is right... why could this possibly matter? In life, small minded people are caught up in classifications, while winners just do what they do and don't sweat labels.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

Your post is stupid.

-SmileyEH

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I guess people didn't get my sarcastic tone.

This was thread was purely for thought. I don't consider myself a pro. I guess I just got sick of hearing everyone is a pro online when just because you play too much you are now a pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
The people who make $10k-$40k/year I think are also something but I don't know what to call them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that there are millions of Americans with full-time jobs who make less than $40k per year, right?

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

Yes, and I truely wonder how people live on say 20-25k a year. Not being a dick, but taken back.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, and I truely wonder how people live on say 20-25k a year. Not being a dick, but taken back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I agree that it wouldn't be easy to live on, but that wasn't my point.

If a poker player who makes $40K per year isn't a professional, then neither is an Accountant who makes $40K per year.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I am the Emperor of America and protectorate of Mexico. What do you say to that, buddy?

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if they are pickled by a pro. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

How utterly absurd. My sister has a masters degree in education and has been teaching 28 years. She has yet to make $50K in a year. I'll tell her that some arrogant college boy doesn't think she's a professional.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am the Emperor of America and protectorate of Mexico. What do you say to that, buddy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say your approval rating is at 39% right now, which is an all-time low for a second term president. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
How utterly absurd. My sister has a masters degree in education and has been teaching 28 years. She has yet to make $50K in a year. I'll tell her that some arrogant college boy doesn't think she's a professional.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing a poker pro to a teacher is a bit of an apples/oranges deal.

Teachers have a much smaller income range than poker players.

A more accurate comparison would be with actors. Some barely eke out a living while some, albeit very few, make millions a year.

IMO, If you can make a 'living' at poker, regardless of what the level of that living is, you're a pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

I'm talking about poker players only

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

Pro is easy - if poker is your only source of income you are a professional poker player. How much you make doesn't matter, someone in a rathole little apartment who makes $1500 a month on poker is a professional if it pays the rent, buys his clothes and food, etc.

Semi-pro is very subjective and almost impossible to define. I guess I would say that if you play and win a significant amount of money consistently and you count on that money as part of your income you are a semi-pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jerry would be proud.

Using that definition,
 

100k/year and no other [significant] source of income, I am a pro pker player.

Too bad Mom didn't live to see it; she'd undoubtedly be beaming with pride not to mention how clever she'd feel for having spent a small fortune on private school for me since the age of 4.

"Top o' the world, Ma".

*

- Please let at least a few of you know the film from which that quote originates.

*

I shall now retreat to my office and ponder where it all went wrong. :-)

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

100k/yr is an absurd cut-off.


I know a couple of people on 2+2 who I consider 'professional'.
They are over 30 years old...poker is their sole-source of income...and they have made around 40k-50k/yr at online-poker for the last 2-4 years.


I file my income taxes as a 'professional gambler'.
I do not make $100k/yr but poker is my sole-source of income so I suppose I do consider myself a 'pro'.

In fact, I have never made more than 50k in a year ever in any of my previous occupations either.


when referncing my status around here or to others I will usually define it as 'my sole-source of income' because I think that calling one-self a 'pro' is a bit silly and pretentious and I don't really care.


Also - tdarko's point that almost every single professional baseball player starts in the $800/mth range is correct and relevant.

Every single one of these ball-players is a 'professional baseball player' (whether YOU consider minor-league baseball players to be 'professional' doesn't really matter. they are 'pro ball-players' and there really isn't room for argument).

And it's not a one-time thing.
Most of them will be making $1000-$2000/mth in their next 3-4 seasons of professional baseball at the A, AA and AAA levels.

Most professional baseball players do not make it to the major leagues.
Most professional baseball players make less than $2k/mth (and only get paid during the 3-5 mths of the baseball season).



I too am annoyed by any wanna-be who calls themselves a 'pro poker player' who really is not.
But the $100k cut-off from the original post is incredibly inaccuarate.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/ETC?
 

I play $1/2 and don't have a job, This is my only form of income.

Can be called a pro please please, it will help me get laid. Please please please.

Milo\'s definitive answer.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta admit buddy. It's pretty unimportant what people call themselves and I guess I don't see why you're so interested? I'm definately not in the D) category and I couldn't care less if some joe schmo who's living off gringing out 15 dollars an hour live is called a pro or a semi-pro or a nobody. Titles don't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

BK is correct, but some people need definitive answers, so I offer the following:

If poker is your sole or primary source of income (and you are not a full-time student or otherwise relying on others to support you in part or whole), then you are a professional poker player.

If you have another job, are a full-time student, or are supported by others, yet derive a significant portion of your income from poker, you may consider yourself a "semi-professional."

If you play for fun, maybe win a little bit here and there, but do not count on poker to help you pay the bills, you are a recreational player.

If you play a lot of poker, but lose more than you win, you should take up another hobby.

Re: Milo\'s definitive answer.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I gotta admit buddy. It's pretty unimportant what people call themselves and I guess I don't see why you're so interested? I'm definately not in the D) category and I couldn't care less if some joe schmo who's living off gringing out 15 dollars an hour live is called a pro or a semi-pro or a nobody. Titles don't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

BK is correct, but some people need definitive answers, so I offer the following:

If poker is your sole or primary source of income (and you are not a full-time student or otherwise relying on others to support you in part or whole), then you are a professional poker player.

If you have another job, are a full-time student, or are supported by others, yet derive a significant portion of your income from poker, you may consider yourself a "semi-professional."

If you play for fun, maybe win a little bit here and there, but do not count on poker to help you pay the bills, you are a recreational player.

If you play a lot of poker, but lose more than you win, you should take up another hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the only logical way to look at it.

Re: Milo\'s definitive answer.
 

Why can't a student be a professional? I also don't think the titles matter one way or another, but I don't understand how a student who meets the IRS' criteria as a professional gambler, and pays FICA etc. can be considered anything but a pro.

Re: What do you consider for someone to call themsevles PRO/SEMI-PRO/E
 

Thank you, as this was the type of conv I was looking for. I wanted to see what others thought and what maybe other people who play poker for a living are making since I don't know tha many much less how much they are pulling in.