how much $
 

just sat down

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

UTG ($1979)
MP ($1673)
Button ($626.92)
SB ($2193)
Hero ($2000)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $45</font>, MP calls $45, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $25.

Flop: ($145) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $143</font>, Hero calls $143, UTG folds.

Turn: ($431) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $350</font>, MP calls $350.

River: ($1131) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">

Re: how much $
 

river card is?

edited in river card /nt
 

n/t

Re: how much $
 

pause...pause...pause...push.

Re: how much $
 

do you ever check this river?

EDIT: obviously i usually bet here, i just thought that this was a more interesting question than how much (since i think there are so many reasons why i'd bet so many different amounts).

Re: how much $
 

i dont usually check this river personally, as I'm pretty darn sure he has one pair and probably will not bet it. Theres not very many two pair hands he can have to pay off, and I think I already wouldv'e heard from the hands that beat me.

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont usually check this river personally, as I'm pretty darn sure he has one pair and probably will not bet it. Theres not very many two pair hands he can have to pay off, and I think I wouldv'e heard from the hands that beat me on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
right. he may not bet his AQ/KQ, and the few times he does bet, say 500-ish, he usually folds to a c/r. so the issue is whether to valuebet 5-700 or so, or to push. he only has a psb remaining in his stack; if he calls a push just half the time you make more money than him calling 700 80% of the time.

Re: how much $
 

well, he has a Q... likely w/ a busted heart draw... bet 500-600 and let him look you up.

Re: how much $
 

i normally go w/ about 1/2 pot.

Barron

Re: how much $
 

$1135

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
$1135

[/ QUOTE ]
gl with that.

Re: how much $
 

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$1135

[/ QUOTE ]
gl with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, he has a Q... likely w/ a busted heart draw... bet 500-600 and let him look you up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: how much $
 

how often do you think a push gets called by QT-AQ? I guess its tough with no reads as the donkeys might call alot, the average/bad tighties never call (but might call 500), and the good/thinking players will sometimes but usually not call.

Also, its not like I can rep a busted draw (and he likely didnt have a draw) so i guess that pushes it towards a smaller bet. I cant see him having a hand to bluff with here other than a total flop steal that turned into a two-way draw.

Re: how much $
 

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$1135

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gl with that.

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do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
And I don't consider this a rhetorical question. Maybe you do think this. I don't. Tell me why you disagree please.

Re: how much $
 

Dude has about exactly a pot bet left, right? I just stick it in there.

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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$1135

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gl with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
And I don't consider this a rhetorical question. Maybe you do think this. I don't. Tell me why you disagree please.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's not a rhetorical question. i'm asking flawless if he really thinks a half-pot bet here will get called twice as often as a pot-bet, which is what it would take for half-pot to be the better bet. i think a pot-bet (which also happens, in this hand, to be an all-in) is the better bet.

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$1135

[/ QUOTE ]
gl with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
And I don't consider this a rhetorical question. Maybe you do think this. I don't. Tell me why you disagree please.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's not a rhetorical question. i'm asking flawless if he really thinks a half-pot bet here will get called twice as often as a pot-bet, which is what it would take for half-pot to be the better bet. i think a pot-bet (which also happens, in this hand, to be an all-in) is the better bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too. Probably should have indicated that I was directing my post towards flawless.

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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$1135

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gl with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

[/ QUOTE ]i dont know... in that game, id often push, and expect KQ to call... but thats only if my image was really good, guy was tilty, etc...
if id just sat down, id bet like 400/500 and hope to squeeeeeze some value... if he doesnt think you are full of it, he aint calling with TP. the game is aggro, but he didnt "just call" the turn planning to put it all in on the end unless hero is waaay beat. he prob has the QhJh, and most will call 500 here almost every time w/ that hand, calling a push never.
if hes a cleard donkey, push. if youve been at the table, and showed down some nasty sh!t, push... mostly value bet a little... 600 is too much.

Re: how much $
 

the problem is that I dont see how he can call a pot bet with QT-AQ. What could I be calling the flop with and playing like this that doesnt have him beat?

Of course he may not be thinking along these lines, or at all.

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you really think he's calling half-pot twice the frequency of calling pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do. I definitely think ½ pot is the superior play here. The only factor working in hero's favor for getting a push called is he just sat down which I don't think is enough to make villain call a push with 1 pair very often.

Re: how much $
 

750 is a good number imo.

Re: how much $
 

anybody else CR the turn all in? the stack sizes are perfect for it. or you think he is checking there too often?

the cool thing about it is that a Q with a fl. draw calls there everytime, and AQ may call there fairly often and if he happens to have gotten cute with AA/KK he's not folding that either. it was a dry flop and the turn was a gutter, so it looks suspicious i think.

Re: how much $
 

after getting called on this dry of a flop, i believe he will check behind Qx fairly often on the turn. He only needs to protect against his hand against a gutterball or if i happen to have a pair and a heart draw. He can't think I will call another bet with worse than a queen can he?

Re: how much $
 

yeah. i like the lead much better here. nh.

and i lean towards 550 here on the river. in the party games at least, this gets called way more than twice as often as an all-in in these situations IMO.

Re: how much $
 

well, i'm glad so many good posters can be split on the river play, cuz I wasn't sure what to do either. Maybe I should've made a poll.

Re: how much $
 

I like jamming it in, but WTFDIK? Most of my bets after the turn are 2/3 of the pot or more, so that's just my normal play.

Does anyone here not really like the flop play? Hero checks TPBK into the PFR, the PFR checks, a cold caller bets, then hero calls before the PFR has a chance to act. I'm not overly wild about that line with such a marginal hand, especially with no even runner runner draws barring the double gutter.

- C -

Re: how much $
 

700 looks good...

Re: how much $
 

I would push. I dont believe in small value bets vs top pair in general. Big bets and big bluffs are the way to go imo.

Best wishes

Re: how much $
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like jamming it in, but WTFDIK? Most of my bets after the turn are 2/3 of the pot or more, so that's just my normal play.

Does anyone here not really like the flop play? Hero checks TPBK into the PFR, the PFR checks, a cold caller bets, then hero calls before the PFR has a chance to act. I'm not overly wild about that line with such a marginal hand, especially with no even runner runner draws barring the double gutter.

- C -

[/ QUOTE ]

If OP is so positive that a flatcall here on a dry board will lead to a small pot anyway (because villain checks turn w/ everything) then it's really fine. he's trying to showdown here.

plus, pfr is a little liberal, it's a minraised pot.

Re: how much $
 

also, i dont expect pfr to have anything here ever. If he had called or riased I wouldv'e been shocked.

Re: how much $
 

The problem with check/raising the turn, is he's checking behind with some Qs here too. You lose a lot of value.

I think with no reads, flawless's line is the best, with reads and a better table feel, you obviously go with a different line/or the same one based on all the other variables.

results
 

i bet 500, villain calls with KQ.

Maybe coulda got more, maybe not.

Re: results
 

Little late, but I like ~750

Re: how much $
 

If OP is so positive that a flatcall here on a dry board will lead to a small pot anyway

Maybe, but with that call there's over $400 in the pot, 20% of a buy-in, and that's before the PFR has a chance to react to the bet. I dunno that I consider that a small pot on a flop with some action.

The board's dry, yeah, but I think it makes more sense to lead or to try to take the pot down on the spot, with folding being another possible option. This is why I hate hands like Q9s OOP against a PFR.

plus, pfr is a little liberal, it's a minraised pot.

Yeah but it's still raised and getting to be a big-ish pot. It's five handed...if you think your hand's good oop, I think you've gotta bet this out.

Check call the flop is the least attractive option for me.

also, i dont expect pfr to have anything here ever. If he had called or riased I wouldv'e been shocked.

Is this because he checked and MP bet? If not, when did you know? If you knew (or strongly suspected) before you checked, why didn't you bet the flop?

Were you planning on betting the turn regardless of what came?

Just curious...

- C -

Re: how much $
 

I knew he had nothing when he checked.

What I did on the turn wouldv'e depended on the turn card, but a lot of times I wouldv'e made a smaller bet or check and reevaluted given the villain's turn action.

Re: how much $
 

I knew he had nothing when he checked.

Okay, in that case the flat call makes more sense. But if that's the case, FWIW, I'm betting that turn no matter what falls.

- C -