Learning...
 

This post is inspried primarily by the 452 post thread about whether not BK should hire Tommy Angelo. Every time Tommy's name comes up in any thread, it gets hijacked because someone thinks he doesn't deserve the credit he gets as poker player and that their 2 year track record of making more money than him means they have nothing to learn. For the vets on this board, what i am going to say is nothing new to you, so it obviously doesnt apply in your cases.

The people who become the best poker players always want to learn. They can learn things very quickly from better players, and they can learn stuff from players worse than them. Someone came up with a good example of this in HUSH a while ago. If there are 1000 things that make you a perfect player, and you have 850 of them, you can still learn different things from someone who only does 700 of the 1000 things correctly. In the specific case of Tommy A., i think some of his suggestions reagrding hand selctin from the blinds and not raising AK preflop would hurt my earn. I also 100% positive that i could learn an incredibly amount from him in always playing my A game, adjusting to table conditions, etc...

My main point is that it doesnt matter if you think you are better than someone, you can still learn from them. Although it's slightly amusing having people come in and whip out their E-Dick only to have Andyfox, El Diablo and come company tell them they are wrong, i just think there is a bit too much on these boards. Anyway, as is obvious by now, my point here is always try to learn and have respect for people, especially people who have being doing this a while. Making more money than Tommy when you play 10x as many hands as him is not all that impressive. PLaying poker for 13 years professionally, changing with the times, and being a guy who still wants to learn, that is impressive.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If there are 1000 things that make you a perfect player, and you have 850 of them, you can still learn different things from someone who only does 700 of the 1000 things correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6857/bimo3wv.jpg

Re: Learning...
 

If anything the lesser player keeps you fresh cause they keep asking questions and you have to think about stuff and try to explain it to them and if they're a good learner they'll ask follow up questions that take it even further.

Complacency is bad.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If anything the lesser player keeps you fresh cause they keep asking questions and you have to think about stuff and try to explain it to them and if they're a good learner they'll ask follow up questions that take it even further.

Complacency is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. I don't play as high as some of my friends, but as soon as we get onto a pool table things change. While I know more than they do, the questions they put to me, and the explanation I'm forced to give for why a certain shot is better than another, has always given something back to me as well. Great point BK.

Re: Learning...
 

Well said.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This post is inspried primarily by the 452 post thread about whether not BK should hire Tommy Angelo. Every time Tommy's name comes up in any thread, it gets hijacked because someone thinks he doesn't deserve the credit he gets as poker player and that their 2 year track record of making more money than him means they have nothing to learn. For the vets on this board, what i am going to say is nothing new to you, so it obviously doesnt apply in your cases.

The people who become the best poker players always want to learn. They can learn things very quickly from better players, and they can learn stuff from players worse than them. Someone came up with a good example of this in HUSH a while ago. If there are 1000 things that make you a perfect player, and you have 850 of them, you can still learn different things from someone who only does 700 of the 1000 things correctly. In the specific case of Tommy A., i think some of his suggestions reagrding hand selctin from the blinds and not raising AK preflop would hurt my earn. I also 100% positive that i could learn an incredibly amount from him in always playing my A game, adjusting to table conditions, etc...

My main point is that it doesnt matter if you think you are better than someone, you can still learn from them. Although it's slightly amusing having people come in and whip out their E-Dick only to have Andyfox, El Diablo and come company tell them they are wrong, i just think there is a bit too much on these boards. Anyway, as is obvious by now, my point here is always try to learn and have respect for people, especially people who have being doing this a while. Making more money than Tommy when you play 10x as many hands as him is not all that impressive. PLaying poker for 13 years professionally, changing with the times, and being a guy who still wants to learn, that is impressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I refuse to believe you are only a Freshman in college. Nice post.

- Jags

Re: Learning...
 

You are wise beyond your years.

This is why I don't feel bad about making strategy post on 2+2 even though I am mediocre at poker.

Re: Learning...
 

Good post...This is the downfall of most good live players. They will never become more than good live players because they think since they can beat an easy game, they dont need to learn anymore. Especialy when that game is the biggest in the room (canterbury)

Re: Learning...
 

group hug everyone?









<font color="white"> awwww shucks. I liked it too. </font>

</font>

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good post...This is the downfall of most good live players. They will never become more than good live players because they think since they can beat an easy game, they dont need to learn anymore. Especialy when that game is the biggest in the room (canterbury)

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. Those guys are so funny. They all wonder why they can't win online...well duh...it's cause the canterbury 30/60 game is freaking ez and the online games are wayyyyyyyy harder in general.

Re: Learning...
 

Lucid thinking ggb, wtg.

Re: Learning...
 

Very often when I read your posts I am incredulous that you're only a freshman in college. Your posts shine with a level of maturity and wisdom that is far too uncommon amongst your peers.

Nice post, again.

Re: Learning...
 

I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe some of us who beat tough games online and have also PLAYED a lot with Tommy LIVE might be better qualified to judge these things than you.... just some food for thought...

Re: Learning...
 

you're exactly right man. no one is perfect, and everyone here can learn something from everyone else, myself included. well said, bro.

Re: Learning...
 

You must like pushing on a rope.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

here's some food for thought for you...your probably going to hate this, but maybe all the requests to ban you from high quality posters i get should tell you that you are more likely to be wrong and annoying than you are to be correct and tolerable.

Barron

Re: Learning...
 

Maybe....Just stating my opinion.

You beat me to the punch
 

I just came off a live losing session where I got all my good hands cracked by longshots. That's nothing new to all of us who play poker everyday.

What got me was my response to my last beat. I stood up, said "Motherf******. Nice hand so and so", picked up my chips and cashed out. It was only a 21BB loss and I shook hands before leaving. No ranting and running for the door stuff. No big loss.

Looking back on the session, in addition to the bad beats, I went on tilt one hand and spewed, and should have played one other hand stronger but got pushed off my hand.

So I played less than optimal and topped it off by momentarily losing my cool. There's been times I ranted here at the desktop and played the fool for the forum, but I rarely lose my cool publicly and exhibit the type of behavior that makes me look stupid and like a novice to poker.

That just reminded me of the Tommy post where mplspoker keeps insisting we defend him because he doesn't play the real high limits, etc. I don't even know Tommy. I'm just talking about trying to improve and how the stuff he writes and the demeanor and views he talks about can add to that. As much as someone else's views might.

He may not have made a fortune live or online, or play 300-600 regularly, but does that mean he can't, or a guy like him, have a positive effect on your emotional state and how it can effect you when playing lots of poker? In how you play, conduct yourself and remember to understand the nature of it?

He didn't pick tiltfree.com as the name for nothing.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
cause the canterbury 30/60 game is freaking ez and the online games are wayyyyyyyy harder in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exhibit A: PokerBob

Re: Learning...
 

awesome

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why i play live poker more.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get why you keep stirring this up. There have been countless posters who are much better than you (Schneids, BK, El D, Andyfox, JAA, Mike L, and so on) who are telling you that Tommy is a formidable force at the table. Why you care so much to put down someone who you have never met/played with is waay beyond me. He has the respect of many people, i dont think he is sitting up crying because he doesnt have yours.

Now that your stance on this is 100% clear, is it neccesary to polute every thread with this kinda stuff?

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

Suggestion: stop replying to this slightly sophisticated troll.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe....Just always defending my opinion regardless of the evidence presented contrary to it or the rediculousness or lack of logic my opinion embodies.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

Barron

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well we have one respected poster who says he's played with you and that you suck even in easy live games...

Re: Learning...
 

Your right.... I suck at poker and business, but somehow i've found a way to survive.....

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your right.... I suck at poker and business, but somehow i've found a way to survive.....

[/ QUOTE ]

So do homeless people.

Re: Learning...
 

IMO, as a mod, you should decrease your use of FYP, and increase your use of &lt;ban&gt;.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your right.... I suck at poker and business, but somehow i've found a way to survive.....

[/ QUOTE ]

So do homeless people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. So basic, yet so true.

Re: Learning...
 

Tommy sucks at poker and yet somehow he gets players making over $600/hr to come pay him 5k to learn from him. Guess he survives too.

Re: Learning...
 

guess we will all just "survive" then....

Re: Learning...
 

Having tried very hard to make a significant amount of money playing poker in my spare time over the last 10 months, I give respect to anyone who consistently earns a living at poker year after year. Even more so if they only play live.

I also have a greater appreciation of the value of not tilting.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your right.... I suck at poker and business, but somehow i've found a way to survive.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually the biggest fish in a poker room is quite successful in the business world.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tommy sucks at poker and yet somehow he gets players making over $600/hr to come pay him 5k to learn from him. Guess he survives too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's making over 600 an hour that's gone to tommy? I would love to talk to them. I think you're exagerating a bit here but I dunno. I'm sure some players who are making 3-400 an hour have, but even with that i bet there aren't all that many.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If anything the lesser player keeps you fresh cause they keep asking questions and you have to think about stuff and try to explain it to them and if they're a good learner they'll ask follow up questions that take it even further.

Complacency is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very interesting point.

Re: Learning...
 

Thanks for giving these guys a dose of reality.

Re: Learning...
 

Ok, maybe i exaggerated, but the point was really that there are people who are very good players and make lots of money who still want to improve their game and feel that Tommy has something to offer.

Re: Learning...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you guys are going to hate this, but i just had to post it..... Maybe that is WHY Tommy Plays LIVE.... just some food for thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh...live games are a lot easier, I'll be the first to tell you that but I think this is way out of line. The fact that he plays in easier live games does not correlate to his ability to play in tougher games. It sounds to me like you haven't had a real dose of variance backlash yet.

Re: Learning...
 

I play 99% on the Internet. All i am saying is that when i read posts (from various posters) juicy 20/40 action at Commerce, etc... it tells me one of three things.. 1) They are playing poker for fun. 2) They don't understand they could be making WAY more online 3) They aren't capable of beating even close to the same limit online. 4) They don't care about money.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with playing live, just saying very very difficult to pull good money... and impossible unbless you are playing pretty high.