Small winnings
 

How difficult would it be to consistently earn and pull out about $400 per month ($15-20 per day)? What is the best way to accomplish this?

I am a low income guy and I figure if I could get remotely good, I could earn at least what I would make at a minimum wage part time fast food gig.

Re: Small winnings
 

8-table the $11s.

Re: Small winnings
 

It depends on how much you plan to play each day.

Re: Small winnings
 

i mean getting on, winning $20 and leaving and doing this every day.

Re: Small winnings
 

Well, firstly poker isn't really a game where you can set any daily limit for how much you make. It's a game of huge variance where one day you could be up $100 and the next down $80, overall you have made $10 per day, but there's no way you could have any way to guarantee it would be the same set amount each and every day. Well unless you had some kind of backer I guess, but that's another matter.

The best thing to do is to play at a limit you feel comfortable at, with a number of tables you feel comfortable at. As you get better though you will want to move up limits, it doesn't have to mean you spending more time playing, but you will be making more $/hour.

Re: Small winnings
 

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i mean getting on, winning $20 and leaving and doing this every day.

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You should not do this. Go to a bookstore and find a copy of "Inside the Poker Mind" by John Feeny. Flip to the chapter about "Hit and Run Follies". It explains why this mentality is bad. Sure you might hit $20 on most days, but what happens when you go down $20 in a day? down $50? down $100? It WILL happen.

Re: Small winnings
 

i disagree to a certain extent. You dont bank money by depositing , u bank it by cashing out.

Re: Small winnings
 

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i disagree to a certain extent. You dont bank money by depositing , u bank it by cashing out.

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What are you talking about?

Re: Small winnings
 

It is possible to set a reasonable target each day and cash it out. Some days things will go wrong and you have to learn to accept this.

Re: Small winnings
 

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How difficult would it be to consistently earn and pull out about $400 per month ($15-20 per day)? What is the best way to accomplish this?

I am a low income guy and I figure if I could get remotely good, I could earn at least what I would make at a minimum wage part time fast food gig.

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The most difficult part of your quest would be actually earning exactly 400$ per month. I know it sounds silly, but beyond the joke there is some truth to it.

Just as some days you wont earn the 20, some months you wont earn the 400...some you will earn more. If you are playing the 11s and 1 month you earn 800, dont expect it to happen the next necessarily...Some months you might just break even, or be down...

There was a thread yesterday about this sort of...But i think if you are not playing poker for a living, IOW, you play as a hobby, just be happy to not lose and enjoy the money when it comes. When it doesnt, try to just enjoy playing and getting better. Earning ANY money with a hobby you are passionate about, where you use your mind constantly, is a great thing...just don't get into the mindset that you HAVE to make x.

Re: Small winnings
 

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It is possible to set a reasonable target each day and cash it out. Some days things will go wrong and you have to learn to accept this.

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Why not quit when he is $1 up? The next game he plays is the next game he plays. No matter when he plays it. Setting daily goals like this only limits his hourly rate.

Re: Small winnings
 

Great prespective. I understand.

Re: Small winnings
 

I was thinking along the lines of the "quit while you're ahead" mentality of purely chance games like slots, which I assume is about the same odds for below average poker players. I understand the swings, but I was thinking, if I was very conservative, I could get up by at least $20 at some point, assuming the swing goes both ways.

Re: Small winnings
 

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I was thinking along the lines of the "quit while you're ahead" mentality of purely chance games like slots, which I assume is about the same odds for below average poker players. I understand the swings, but I was thinking, if I was very conservative, I could get up by at least $20 at some point, assuming the swing goes both ways.

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This mentality won't win you money at slots. And it won't work for a lousy poker player.

Re: Small winnings
 

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I was thinking along the lines of the "quit while you're ahead" mentality of purely chance games like slots, which I assume is about the same odds for below average poker players. I understand the swings, but I was thinking, if I was very conservative, I could get up by at least $20 at some point, assuming the swing goes both ways.

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This is very bad. Quitting while you're ahead doesn't accomplish anything.

Re: Small winnings
 

Expectation is expectation. If you play enough your results will tend to shift toward your theoretical expected value. "Quitting when you're ahead" doesn't mean anything if you plan on playing every day...your sample size will be huge enough in time that your average will begin to show.

It's true that, when playing a -EV game, the best way to play it (other than to completely avoid it, which is better) is to maximize the standard deviation in some way, but the standard deviation shrinks dramatically as the sample size increases. If you have to play roulette one time, the best thing to do would be to put your entire roll on red or black for one spin rather than sitting at the table for 5 hours and playing every spin. Your expectation is still negative, but your standard deviation for the session will be huge since it's only one spin. However, if you do this every night for a year you'll likely find yourself stuck at the mathematical -EV outcome.

If you're a -EV or slightly +EV player, "quitting while you're up $20" every day will still eventually lead to your EV, due to the fact that there will be days when you're down way more than $20. If you can be a winning player, set aside X number of hours every day and just play. If you don't feel you can do it (or don't feel you can do it to the level where you can make enough $ for you to be satisfied) then I'd probably look elsewhere.

-SonnyJay

Re: Small winnings
 

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It's true that, when playing a -EV game, the best way to play it (other than to completely avoid it, which is better) is to maximize the standard deviation in some way, but the standard deviation shrinks dramatically as the sample size increases. If you have to play roulette one time, the best thing to do would be to put your entire roll on red or black for one spin rather than sitting at the table for 5 hours and playing every spin. Your expectation is still negative, but your standard deviation for the session will be huge since it's only one spin. However, if you do this every night for a year you'll likely find yourself stuck at the mathematical -EV outcome.

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From an EV standpoint, maximizing SD does nothing.

Re: Small winnings
 

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How difficult would it be to consistently earn and pull out about $400 per month ($15-20 per day)? What is the best way to accomplish this?

I am a low income guy and I figure if I could get remotely good, I could earn at least what I would make at a minimum wage part time fast food gig.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post in more forums.

Re: Small winnings
 

Absolutely. You should just not play. But given that you've made the bad decision to play, the fewer hands the better, ie. the best chance to have an up session given that you're betting this amount.

But definitely, don't play at all.

-SonnyJay

Re: Small winnings
 

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It's true that, when playing a -EV game, the best way to play it (other than to completely avoid it, which is better) is to maximize the standard deviation in some way, but the standard deviation shrinks dramatically as the sample size increases. If you have to play roulette one time, the best thing to do would be to put your entire roll on red or black for one spin rather than sitting at the table for 5 hours and playing every spin. Your expectation is still negative, but your standard deviation for the session will be huge since it's only one spin. However, if you do this every night for a year you'll likely find yourself stuck at the mathematical -EV outcome.

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Your logic is correct but your conclusion that playing a single time for your roll is always preferable to playing N times for 1/N of your roll is wrong. Which choice is better depends on the individual's preference for specific outcomes, given that both are the same -EV.

If I'm (forced to be) playing roulette with my entire life's savings, I will prefer to make 10,000 small bets, knowing that in the end I'll be down about 5%. But I'll much prefer the near certainty of just dropping 5% than to take the risk of losing everything I have in one go.

On the other hand, if I'm playing for a plane ticket out of Casablanca, and the only acceptable result is that I double up my roll or I can't afford the ticket, then one throw is the way to go. While EV is the same as spinning 1,000 times with 1/1000 of my stake, my chance of realizing a particular outsized gain is maximized by minimizing the number of trials.

Depends on the individual's "utility preference function", as the economists would say.

Re: Small winnings
 

Yes, I agree. I was making the reference as to the "best chance of an up session of a specified amount" which I felt was the idea of the OP's plan since the slots comparison was made.

-SonnyJay

Re: Small winnings
 

After processing all of the advise, I have decided to become a whore. Now I just have to withdraw from school and find myself a competent pimp. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] But seriously, any tips on BW? Also if you do this, how much do you make strictly from the bonuses? Thanks, you guys have been a big help.

Re: Small winnings
 

If you can make 10% ROI at the 11s, that's a return of $1.10 each, so you need to play 20 a day to make your 20 bucks. Easy work. As others have said, however, you can't count on a steady return day by day. One day you'll make $40, the next day you'll make zip. Also keep in mind that 20 11s a day will require a daily investment of $220. A couple of bad days can really ruin your month. Losing 10 in a row isn't that uncommon.

Short answer: Take the fast-food job and play poker on the side until you can handle the swings.

Re: Small winnings
 

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Losing 10 in a row is remarkably common.

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FYP

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Short answer: Take the fast-food job and play poker on the side until you can handle the swings.

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This is very, very sound advice.

OP - be careful with the BW plan. Assuming your deposit is $250, you could burn through that before making the bonus if you aren't careful. There is a reason they offer bonuses: most players can't beat it.

Bottom line: study, read 2+2, play recreationally, learn the game before you endeavor to use poker as any thing other than a hobby.

Re: Small winnings
 

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How difficult would it be to consistently earn and pull out about $400 per month ($15-20 per day)? What is the best way to accomplish this?

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If you're a winning player at low limits and willing to put in the hours, then $400 a month is reasonable. Most months, but not all you could make this target.

As for $20 per day... well, as so many others have said, averaging $20 per day isn't hard, but actually getting $20 per day, every single day is much harder than you'd think.

Poker has a lot of variance, so in the short term, you'll experience large swings, even if you have a proven long-term win rate established.

Re: Small winnings
 

Loxii the very best advice anybody could give to you right now would be to spend the next couple of weeks thoroughly reading this forum and its archives. Read them until you can't stand it any more. It should make you a winning player which it seems is all you really want to be. Become a winning player and all else will take care of itself.

Re: Small winnings
 

At the shorthanded $12 tables on stars or heads up matches $400 a month is quite easy.

Indy

Re: Small winnings
 

Do you all play limit or no limit? SNGs?

Re: Small winnings
 

I recommend you learn to play limit omaha 8/b and try those sng's or even a ring game. People are ridiculously bad at them and presumably variance is lower.

Re: Small winnings
 

I play mostly no limit but limit is also profitable. Just practice your heads up play and get better at shorthanded games. Full SNG tables are fine too but take longer and are more taxing. You should also be playing the nightly $10+1 MTT on stars or at least one of the $2 or $3 games. I hit one of these every month or so for at least 1K.

Indy

Re: Small winnings
 

Ez to do. If you can play 4 at a time (easy), and are ok for the $11s (say 15% roi, easy) then it'd take 2hrs a day.

Just study sngs seriously, and get to 8tabling $22s and higher. That's $40+.

Re: Small winnings
 

Just to give another perspective. Going into yesterday, I'd lost $200 this month playing the $22's. Yesterday I made $700 in 28 games.