Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

This is one of my favorite plays in Holdem. I will do this with Kings also sometimes. Seems like there is always a raise behind me and then I can re raise. If everyone just calls oh well and I'll have no problem folding it after the flop if I HAVE to. If the blinds are really big I will raise with it. I'm talking early in a MTT or SNG.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

Sometimes it can work out. Other times it will bite you in the ass. Yesterday I was playing a sng online and got pocket aces utg so I checked it. Blinds were 25/50, Someone late in position raises it up to 200. I made it 600 and he called. Flop is QQx. I check, he checks. Turn is another rag so I go all in. He calls, turns over Q7o. I don't know why he called my re-raise, but obviously I wasn't happy.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes it can work out. Other times it will bite you in the ass. Yesterday I was playing a sng online and got pocket aces utg so I checked it. Blinds were 25/50, Someone late in position raises it up to 200. I made it 600 and he called. Flop is QQx. I check, he checks. Turn is another rag so I go all in. He calls, turns over Q7o. I don't know why he called my re-raise, but obviously I wasn't happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

DONK strikes again!

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

He called your re-raise because he had a card with a picture on it. That's usually enough.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He called your re-raise because he had a card with a picture on it. That's usually enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That must have been it. Pretty pictures! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

Depends on your table, who is on your left and seated where. In general, at least at 5-10, this play cost you more than it earns you.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

whoops, didn't read carefully. You were speaking of tournaments, I was speaking cash ring game. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

I do this very occasionally to mix up my pre-flop play. I use the suits to determine when I do this, so every time I get the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I'll try to limp/re-raise from EP.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes it can work out. Other times it will bite you in the ass. Yesterday I was playing a sng online and got pocket aces utg so I checked it. Blinds were 25/50, Someone late in position raises it up to 200. I made it 600 and he called. Flop is QQx. I check, he checks. Turn is another rag so I go all in. He calls, turns over Q7o. I don't know why he called my re-raise, but obviously I wasn't happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you got him to put in 15x the BB or so with Q/7 vs your AA? I would encourage him to do this every time... in NL a limp/reraise is about the only way to play AA from early position. Any reasonable raise will just get called (probably by to many people) and a big raise will get you only the blinds. Limp/reraise will often "anger" them and get them to call with a hand they would have folded if you had raised out early.

Not sure how well it works at 50/100 limit or 1000 buy-in NL as I don't play that high... but I would imagine those guys don't fall for it. But at 100 NL and 3/6 Limit they fall for it EVERY time.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do this very occasionally to mix up my pre-flop play. I use the suits to determine when I do this, so every time I get the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I'll try to limp/re-raise from EP.

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Good Theory! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
in NL a limp/reraise is about the only way to play AA from early position. Any reasonable raise will just get called (probably by to many people) and a big raise will get you only the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is frighteningly wrong.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do this very occasionally to mix up my pre-flop play. I use the suits to determine when I do this, so every time I get the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I'll try to limp/re-raise from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Theory! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in NL a limp/reraise is about the only way to play AA from early position. Any reasonable raise will just get called (probably by to many people) and a big raise will get you only the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is frighteningly wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say this? When I play AA I want callers, but not to many. (unless everyone is going to go all-in pre-flop). I generally want to see 1-2 callers fairly deep into their stacks calling. I can't get 1-2 callers calling deep without a limp/reraise from EP. How do you play AA at a table where 2-3xBB is the standard raise?

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in NL a limp/reraise is about the only way to play AA from early position. Any reasonable raise will just get called (probably by to many people) and a big raise will get you only the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is frighteningly wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say this? When I play AA I want callers, but not to many. (unless everyone is going to go all-in pre-flop). I generally want to see 1-2 callers fairly deep into their stacks calling. I can't get 1-2 callers calling deep without a limp/reraise from EP. How do you play AA at a table where 2-3xBB is the standard raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer is:

I make my standard 3-4xBB raise, get all those callers that I'd normally get because they're idiots and will call with stuff like 75s, and roll around in all the extra money I'm probably going to win. You want to play scared and hope for your big bad rockets to never lose. I want to play to maximize my long-term profit by understanding EV.

To be fair, the limp-reraise is a good move to have in your arsenal for the hyper-aggressive table you might come upon, in order to change it up a little bit. That said, the logic behind your play with AA is waaaaay off. But then, that's what these forums are here for.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

Hey, he's good for poker.. although its a bad beat its pretty hilarious........sorry

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, he's good for poker.. although its a bad beat its pretty hilarious........sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Anytime someone sucks out on me I just tell myself that they were an idiot for calling in the first place. As long as my chips go in with the best hand, especially when I'm dominating, I'm happy.

When they suck out like that, I'll always congratulate them on the hand hoping the make the same mistake again. It's still hard to stop myself from smashing things when they suck out though! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I make my standard 3-4xBB raise, get all those callers that I'd normally get because they're idiots and will call with stuff like 75s

[/ QUOTE ]

If the stacks are deep enough, this is not necessarily a bad call against AA.

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

If check calling and then check raising the river is "The Sexy" then limp re-raising aces is "The Gay".

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

Well, I would like to point out a few important factors. If your sitting at a table with a punch of pro's, limping UTG with AA is prolly a bad idea, you might as well turn your cards over face up and play the hand.

Especially if you never limp with anything else. If your raising with JJ, QQ, AQ, etc UTG and showing these hands down, if you limp UTG and win a showdown and show AA they will file this into memory forever and ever.

On the hand, if your at your local brick and motar casino with the jokers who can't tell you the last time you won a hand, even if it was the last hand then this play will work alot.

In a tournament, the name of the game is survival. It is important that if you limp up front, and get your raise...dont f around just move in. Espcially if there is a raise and a caller already. You dont want to just min raise or any of that garbage...your giving away your hand to most competant players, and some may call just trying to hit a set.

In your example. If i could put in 400 more after I raised, with 77 to potentially get everything if I hit a 7..then I probably have the implied odds to do so. I am wagering 400 to your whole stack. I won't put in any more money unless I can make a hand that will beat the 2 hands I think you have.
Going broke in the tournament, even with a bad beat, ends your tournament. Its always good to take down that pot pre flop and continue forward.

In a cash game, sometimes a dream scenario occurs where you limp and it folds to a mid position player who raises and then it folds back to you. In this case, you have zero incentive to reriase. Your hand is very disguised and your heads up with AA...great situation.

Most often though, there will be other limpers and perhaps callers, in this case...I prefer to reriase with my AA a large amount to potentially win the pot right there or narrow it down to head up.

It is safer to take chances in a cash game in the way you play your aces, because you can always rebuy if your bad beat and continue playing.

yes, i do
 

however, i only play nl/pl at the party 25/50, where other players do really stupid things. i like to limp with a lot of stuff in ep, so the limp-reraise with aa/kk helps protect these drawing hands from the morons that over-raise in lp to steal when tight players limp in ep. basically, if they wanna steal my 25/50 cents 80% of the time, they are gonna have to pay the price when i have my monster waiting for them. to do this, you have to be willing to lay down overpairs when it is painfully obvious you are beat. a lot of people can't do that. i am still not sure if this is the highest ev way to play, but i like it. btw, i always try to play at the tables with at least 1 maniac, so it works forme. i wouldn't recommend this against normal opponents.

Re: yes, i do
 

If you have read HoH2, Harrington talks about this play I think on page like 34 or 35. When, Why and How you should do it.

Example of it working to perfection.. (with Kings)
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 (t1645)
CO (t1255)
Button (t4790)
SB (t870)
BB (t1835)
Hero (t2350)
UTG+1 (t725)
MP1 (t1730)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, BB calls t240.

Flop: (t705) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t455</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t1535</font>, Hero calls t1080.

Turn: (t3775) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t3775) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t3775

He had 55

Re: Do you like \"just calling\" w/ AA from EP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't get 1-2 callers calling deep without a limp/reraise from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]



ummm....why not?

sometimes your opponents have good cards too.


At the WSOP ME this year.

Blinds 50/100.
UTG guy has about 12.5k and I have about 19k.

UTG guy bets 300
I have KK and raise to 1000
UTG guy re-raises to 5000
I push all-in and he calls with AA.

His AA holds up.


I've had similar experiences. You are just hoping that someone else has a decent hand and want to challenge you.
Sometimes you get that someone. Other times everyone folds because they are all looking at garbage.


The limp-reraise screams AA or KK.
Although I believe some sophisticated players can pull the ol' limp-reraise to INDUCE a fold when they are against an opponent whom they believe will read it as 'the typical' AA or KK play.