300/600 AA spewing...
 

Button raises, SB 3-bets and I just call with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB, button caps, we both call.

Now, I haven't seen Button cap before, he is not the type to do the freeplay cap. SB will raise a large variety of hands here.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets, I call, Button raises (I now put him on an overpair), we both call.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checked to Button who bets, SB calls, I checkraise, Button 3-bets, SB calls, I cap, both call.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet, both call. I bet the river, because I think I can fold to a raise and I also would have to call a bet and when Button has KK I collect 1BB (provided SB didn't get there).

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

i kept waiting for the part where you spew and it didnt come. i think you played this one fine.

and bet-folding the river in a huge pot at 300-600 (where the players tend to be trickier) seems like a bad idea. bet-calling would be fine.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

You played it good, although looks like you might have lost to a flush out of the sb.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

It's aggressive, but I think you played it perfectly on all streets. I actually the think the SB is your main competition here, not the button, who has made it clear that he has a 2nd best pocket pair and doesn't believe you have the T.

my 2 cents.
eric

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

Why not cap preflop, a call means a decent hand anyway and you would cap with a wide range, right?

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I think you played it brilliantly. Don't like your comment about folding to a raise tho. You play that game with any kind of regularity and do this once or twice and you will have people making moves against you left and right, which will then put you into a defensive position of having to check you marginal hands instead of betting for value. Don't worry so hard about saving that one bet when there's twenty in the pot.

I would've played your hand more conservatively, by raising the flop just because I don't even want the button if he has 99 to peel one off. And if he happens to have KK, he'd probably reraise which may drive out the SB who may have something like QT. When the pot's capped pre-flop, I tend to try my hardest to win it rather than getting more money in. But if I knew that I could get 4 bets in on the turn 3 way like you did, it might've been worth the risk.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i kept waiting for the part where you spew and it didnt come.

[/ QUOTE ]

almost my thought exactly.

you put the guy squarely on an overpair, and played the hand perfectly according to that read. sb has shown no strength whatsoever. i would guess that you won a big pot

ni han

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
you put the guy squarely on an overpair, and played the hand perfectly according to that read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except for the folding to a river raise part.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I'm surprised you didn't raise the flop.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

As others have stated, I think this hand was expertly played. At first I thought that 3betting the flop would have been best (I'm still not sure it isn't, your hand doesn't really look like AA there, more like Abig diamonds that didn't want to pressure the button, but now wants more money in the pot.) If you can count on the button to bet the turn, however, I like the slow play. Having the turn checked through would be a disaster.

lf

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you put the guy squarely on an overpair, and played the hand perfectly according to that read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except for the folding to a river raise part.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, for the same reasons mike l. gives. i thought about editing my post and mentioning that but i thought it would make me look like a mike l. fanboi. at first i didn't even read the last sentence of rig's post

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
As others have stated, I think this hand was expertly played. At first I thought that 3betting the flop would have been best (I'm still not sure it isn't, your hand doesn't really look like AA there, more like Abig diamonds that didn't want to pressure the button, but now wants more money in the pot.) If you can count on the button to bet the turn, however, I like the slow play. Having the turn checked through would be a disaster.

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of this.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i kept waiting for the part where you spew and it didnt come. i think you played this one fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I think I'm second guessing myself to much these days.
[ QUOTE ]

and bet-folding the river in a huge pot at 300-600 (where the players tend to be trickier) seems like a bad idea. bet-calling would be fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely fold to a raise on the river in a pot like this (I call to much if anything). But these guys are of the call and pray type when it comes to the river.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised you didn't raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

After that flop action Button bets 98% of the time and SB calls with any draw, so I figured I could wait till the turn to come clean.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

For those interested SB took the pot with KdJd. Thanks for the replies.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

Ok so I would like to look at this scenario and distinguish how terrible the SB played this hand. Does anyone else agree with me?

Here is what I’m thinking.

Ok first off 3 betting with KdJd. Pretty risky business. Although with a raise on the button ok I can live with that. It’s a lil suspicious. So ok. But then the BB calls and the Button Caps it. So right there you in a hand that’s capped with a pretty mediocre holding.

So ok. The flop comes Good for the Flush SB. He bets. Ok I like that. I’d do the same.
Ok so the turn is no help to SB and the Button Bets out. So right now there is 5400$ in the pot + 600$ bet by the button making it 6k. So right now he’s getting 10:1 to call. Hell YES im calling with those odds.

Ok so now he calls but then the BB Raises. And UH OH, the Button 3 Bets its back to me. So now lets look at the board.

2 diamonds but also two 10s out there which means that because the 2 other players have overpairs (which is pretty obvious) Hes lost 2 of his outs to hit his flush because if they make their set he could still lose to a FH over a flush. So his odds right now are probably 1:7 ish or close enough. So basically he is getting 9000:1200 pot odds on calling which is pretty much 7:1 So it looks like a correct call but he has to assume that the betting will be capped which gives him 9000:1800 instead of the 9000:1200 that hes actually putting in now. So his implied odds are 1/5. Giving him incorrect odds in calling the raises. So anyways he makes a bad call and calls BUT its not that terrible bad cause it’s a HUGE pot and if he wins he wins big. But still incorrect mathmatically.

So the river comes 6d compelting his flush. Now the SB Checks (you would assume hes checking to let everyone else bet then the BB Bets OK great for the SB, the Button calls (even better for the small blind) then the SB goes to raise……Oh wait. He just calls? If your worried about the nut flush then FOLD much ealier before you invest thousands of dollars into a pot.

He calls capped bets and then just calls the river when he makes the 2nd nut flush? Whats the point of staying in a pot if when you make the hand your hoping for you just call the river bet? Its possibly one of the worst calls ever in my opinion. So anyways, I think the SB played this hand terribly but got rewarded for his idiocy im just happy that he DIDN’T raise and make the other 2 pay him off because they pretty much had to call getting 23:1 to call. So its basically a no brainer call. Im beyond surprised that someone at this level plays this horribly.

What do you all think about my analysis. Give me some feedback about how horrible my post is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

Beutiful hand, i realy realy like the way you play all streets. The way i see it you got maximum value from your hand and its just unfortunate the SB got u on the river.
You manage to get in 4 bets on the turn that just so beutiful.
Did button have KK or AA?

"edit"
Im not a 100% sure that i would bet the river thou since to me (and you?) its pretty aparant that the sb is chasing the fldraw, since u dont have Ad maybee id put him on Adxd so i would be afraid of him raising the river. Also i love the fact that u wait until the turn to raise maximum value when safe card dropps!

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

No, I meant the first time around.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, I meant the first time around.

[/ QUOTE ]

because Button capped preflop and I fully expected him to raise again.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

how does the sb not find a river raise?
dave

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
how does the sb not find a river raise?
dave

[/ QUOTE ]

Which worse hand would call him?

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

Hold on, I don't follow. You expect him to raise the flop again, but when he does, you "now put him on an overpair?"

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hold on, I don't follow. You expect him to raise the flop again, but when he does, you "now put him on an overpair?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I should have said 'for sure'. I had him on an overpair from the preflop cap and his flop raise 'sealed' the read.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I think your reads are a little too narrow here. Tough players will check behind on the turn with hands sometimes, and that's the last thing you want in a big pot with draws out there. I'm sure he is putting you on a good hand, too. I would have capped up the flop and bet the turn. Since the pot is so large, the button will likely raise you with any overpair, and possibly with AK. I'm glad you got it capped up, though. Betting the river is correct, and folding is not a good idea, as others said. It worked out for you, but you could have left lots of money on the table. I hope you won a monster!

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

Yours should.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yours should.

[/ QUOTE ]
i also think that both of the hands, you and the button have represented would and should usaully call, or at least one of you.
dave

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I think its a bit disconcerting that button is not afraid of 2nd ten. What hand can he put you on? You have shown no initiative until now. Since you have never seen him cap I suppose he could have Kings and put you on a semi-bluff turn raise, but I would be real worried about a hand like 88 or AT. Lastly sb just has to have you beat on river if button doesnt. I know it might sound weak but I like check and call.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I agree fully, especially online. In a live game, they may be able to get away from the hand, but it depends.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

I should have added that it's a 6 handed game that's played very agressive!

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

SB must 3bet this river. why no cap preflop?

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

So what did button have then? KK? My earlier comments about people checking behind after capping up the flop still applies - especially with a hand like QJ or something. Just something to think about in the future. High limit players aren't blindly aggressive, unless they hate money, and they have a knack for slowing down at the right time.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what did button have then? KK? My earlier comments about people checking behind after capping up the flop still applies - especially with a hand like QJ or something. Just something to think about in the future. High limit players aren't blindly aggressive, unless they hate money, and they have a knack for slowing down at the right time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a read on this guy and he wasn't about to slow down. I understand and appreciate the comment though. He never showed but considering his river call I believe my read was dead on (KK, possibly QQ or AA) with the off chance af ATs.

Re: 300/600 AA spewing...
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB must 3bet this river. why no cap preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do often cap here but call maybe 30% of the time. It also depends on the opponents; with agressive guys like this there is a lot to be said for deception. Besides a call gives you a chance to see if button caps.