QQ problems
 

I open for 16 with QQ in ep. I got about 400 and villan has the same. 2 guys call behind me, both tighish winning players. Not sure how villan would play a draw.

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I lead for 44. Villan immediatly makes it 88. This could be KQ, AJ, spades or a set. JJ TT are very possible. limper folds. I figure folding is too weak given all the draws and call.

Turn is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I check, villan bets 90. He has about 220 left. Is this a push or fold? And who goes all the way with this hand?

Re: QQ problems
 

push

Re: QQ problems
 

ALL IN

Re: QQ problems
 

So... many... draws. I think I push this turn. That 4c was an awesome card.

SpaceAce

Re: QQ problems
 

At these limits do you simply accept that you will loose your stack to a set in this kind of situation or is it simply very rare that villain with a set will size raise flop?

Re: QQ problems
 

I don't know if the other posters play much 400NL but it is full of weak-tight players.

If they're truly "tightish" I really don't have any problems with folding this flop, ahnuld. I'm thinking you're beat.

Ryan

Re: QQ problems
 

[ QUOTE ]
push

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: QQ problems
 

The real question is actually how often is he taking a free card here.

Re: QQ problems
 

villain's bet smells
it looks like he has 9s8s (or KsQs but less likely) and is being really cute
i'd move in here
if nothing else, it sends a message to your opponents that if they want the pot stuff like this will not fly

Re: QQ problems
 

I had an almost identical hand back in July.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($201.50)
BB ($222.25)
UTG ($33.30)
Hero ($226.45)
CO ($201)
Button ($101.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, CO calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($19) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $16</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $32</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($83) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $60</font>, CO calls $60.

River: ($203) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $86</font>...

Opponent seemed at least semi-reasonable. When he raised me on the turn I figured he could set, KQ, AK, maybe flush draw. I wasn't sure how to play it. Figured wair for the turn is best, if something like the A of [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] comes out I can get away cheaply. I bet the turn because I thought he might take a free card - was planning to fold to a push. When he just calls I figure I have a valuebet on the river, but the T is a bit scary, perhaps I should check-call?

Re: QQ problems
 

I figure with the flop mini-raise and smallish turn bet, he's got AxJx type hand. Push.

Re: QQ problems
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if the other posters play much 400NL but it is full of weak-tight players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely true.

Re: QQ problems
 

Against a standard opponent I would push this, but its of cource read dependant. Against rather tight players, Id be 70/30 to fold.

Re: QQ problems
 

[ QUOTE ]
I open for 16 with QQ in ep. I got about 400 and villan has the same. 2 guys call behind me, both tighish winning players. Not sure how villan would play a draw.

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I lead for 44. Villan immediatly makes it 88. This could be KQ, AJ, spades or a set. JJ TT are very possible. limper folds. I figure folding is too weak given all the draws and call.

Turn is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I check, villan bets 90. He has about 220 left. Is this a push or fold? And who goes all the way with this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tightish winning players dont min raise the flop in a raised pot with a draw. Unraised pot, sure, but in a raised pot, hes going to have a set far far too often for you to continue.

If hes tricky, he could also have AA / KK but based on his small turn bet, I doubt it.

Results
 

I should have folded or gone allin. I did the worst thing possible, but I realised it and learned from it right away. I called. River blank, I check, he goes allin for the 230. This should have been a fold for me as well, but since he might have had a draw, I called. Folding or moving in on turn is definitly the best play, maybe folding winning out.

He had JJ or TT, I cant remeber, but it doesnt matter since he plays them the same way.

BTW, he might have had a draw. A few orbits later, when I have position, I raise preflop with AJ, and when he check riased me on the J high draw heavy flop, and I came back overthetop, he folded. So while a set is likely, he would also do this with a draw given the agressive way he played the 2nd hand. Therefore I believe moving in on the turn is the way to go.

Re: Results
 

what if you reraised the flop to about 200 and folded to a push? seems like a lot of money to invest, but its better than losing the whole stack. no matter the odds, i think it would be an easy fold if villain pushed after being reraised.

Re: Results
 

2 opponents, JT flop, reraise?
are you wild?
this pot needs to get HU and without him putting too much money in

Re: Results
 

if villain is takeover1 you are absolutely correct

Re: Results
 

Putting 200 in on flop and folding to a reraise is gross. If im villan, Ill move allin with a flush draw or a straight draw becuase I know I would do the same with a set.

Villan was tainton 18/4/10 after 1100 hands.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
Putting 200 in on flop and folding to a reraise is gross. If im villan, Ill move allin with a flush draw or a straight draw becuase I know I would do the same with a set.

Villan was tainton 18/4/10 after 1100 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


Quick question - You say you push here on a draw, but even when you most likely have no fold equity? If some guy reraised me half his stack on the flop, I'd assume he wasn't going to fold to a push. Is this just to keep them guessing or do you think they still fold to a push or what?


[ QUOTE ]
2 opponents, JT flop, reraise?
are you wild?
this pot needs to get HU and without him putting too much money in

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I suppose I am a little too wild at times.

A TJ flop makes me even more tempted to play it hard though. Gimmie a TJQ or 9TJ flop and I'm out. I definitely agree with keeping it cheap, but this was just an alternative to stacking off. Is my line gross in comparison to the OP's line? If so, why? Just curious, not sarcastic.

Re: Results
 

moving in on that board in this position with this hand is just bad
just think about what calls you and what folds

//

if villain is 55/15/2 and incs TP/2ndP/draws/sets it's an instapush ya

villain here is borderline TA, nuff said