Value betting the river
 

Value betting the river is bar far my biggest leak. I check behind far too often. What do you think about this one. I just recently switched to 6 max, so Im still getting used to people playing much weaker hands than in full ring.

6 max ..$1/$2 NL

I raise to $8 with QQ. BB calls. Hes got $160 and i have him covered..No reads.

Pot $18. Flop comes Tc9d5c He checks, I bet $15 and he calls.
Pot $48. Turn 5d. He checks, I bet $36 and he calls.
Pot $120. River Js. He checks and I check behind. He wont call anything with a busted flush draw, but since this is 6 max, hes more likely to have AT, KT, QT than a full ring.

Do you value bet here? Hes got $105 left.

Re: Value betting the river
 

I'd bet 1/2 pot. I'd check behind if there wasn't a 5 on the turn though. The only thing ur scared of here is a sraight(or 5% a complete donkey with a set). The straight is almost impossible unless villan has KQc or 78c exactly. I'd probably call a push too.

Re: Value betting the river
 

I'd need a good read that tells me I'm ahead for sure before declining my shot at a free showdown. Some of the good things about this board is the pair of fives out there which presumably haven't hit him, and the jack on the river could easily have improved a straight draw to top pair. So you have a great chance to get called by JT, QJ, and J8, who all improved on the river. But if you routinely value bet the river with marginal hands your opponents may start playing trickier against you with their big hands which you don't want to happen.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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I'd bet 1/2 pot. I'd check behind if there wasn't a 5 on the turn though. The only thing ur scared of here is a sraight(or 5% a complete donkey with a set). The straight is almost impossible unless villan has KQc or 78c exactly. I'd probably call a push too.

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i don't like this advice. no hand is calling that doesn't beat you. we also don't know your table image so if hero is seen as loose you can expect 55, KQo (not just suited) and 78o. and if u say "he isn't calling the turn bet with 87o" that 5 turn gives him a double belly.

WAWB nice check.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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I'd need a good read that tells me I'm ahead for sure before declining my shot at a free showdown. Some of the good things about this board is the pair of fives out there which presumably haven't hit him, and the jack on the river could easily have improved a straight draw to top pair. So you have a great chance to get called by JT, QJ, and J8, who all improved on the river. But if you routinely value bet the river with marginal hands your opponents may start playing trickier against you with their big hands which you don't want to happen.

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very nice post.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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I'd bet 1/2 pot. I'd check behind if there wasn't a 5 on the turn though. The only thing ur scared of here is a sraight(or 5% a complete donkey with a set). The straight is almost impossible unless villan has KQc or 78c exactly. I'd probably call a push too.

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i don't like this advice. no hand is calling that doesn't beat you. we also don't know your table image so if hero is seen as loose you can expect 55, KQo (not just suited) and 78o. and if u say "he isn't calling the turn bet with 87o" that 5 turn gives him a double belly.

WAWB nice check.

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I don't like this advice.

First off, there are several hands that are calling that we beat. KJ, QJ, JT, J9, J8 are definitely calling. AT, KT, QT would possibly call a value bet as well. Obviously T9 is calling, but if he had T9 he most likely would've raised sometime before the river.

Second, if he hit a straight with KQ or 87, he probably would've bet out seeing as his outs are scare cards and he would fear a check behind. It's also statistically less likely he has a Q because we have 2 of them.

Third, how in the world does the 5 on the turn give him a double belly?

As for my advice. I'd value bet this river. But I would probably put in a little less than 1/2 the pot. If he has a hand like AT or KT, he'd still likely call this. Probably a bet around $40-50. I would also call a c/r push from him considering the size of the pot, his stack isn't very large, and considering a lot of people might c/r with JT or J9.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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I'd bet 1/2 pot. I'd check behind if there wasn't a 5 on the turn though. The only thing ur scared of here is a sraight(or 5% a complete donkey with a set). The straight is almost impossible unless villan has KQc or 78c exactly. I'd probably call a push too.

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i don't like this advice. no hand is calling that doesn't beat you. we also don't know your table image so if hero is seen as loose you can expect 55, KQo (not just suited) and 78o. and if u say "he isn't calling the turn bet with 87o" that 5 turn gives him a double belly.

WAWB nice check.

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I don't like this advice.

First off, there are several hands that are calling that we beat. KJ, QJ, JT, J9, J8 are definitely calling. AT, KT, QT would possibly call a value bet as well. Obviously T9 is calling, but if he had T9 he most likely would've raised sometime before the river.

Second, if he hit a straight with KQ or 87, he probably would've bet out seeing as his outs are scare cards and he would fear a check behind. It's also statistically less likely he has a Q because we have 2 of them.

Third, how in the world does the 5 on the turn give him a double belly?

As for my advice. I'd value bet this river. But I would probably put in a little less than 1/2 the pot. If he has a hand like AT or KT, he'd still likely call this. Probably a bet around $40-50. I would also call a c/r push from him considering the size of the pot, his stack isn't very large, and considering a lot of people might c/r with JT or J9.

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Bingo. Nice post. The 5 is a great card for us because it puts us ahead of his two pair hands which is what makes this a value bet, not a check.

Re: Value betting the river
 

i check this behind without a question. what hands are calling us that we are ahead of?

Re: Value betting the river
 

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i check this behind without a question. what hands are calling us that we are ahead of?

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too many draws on this board. If you missed a bet, that happens but more often than not your going to lose here....

Re: Value betting the river
 

is this a joke?

you are all joking, right? given he has less than a pot bet left in his stack (and thus is not trying to get fancy with a river check raise to make more when you are deep) and thus you ain't scared of a c/r, there is no reason to not value bet this river.

i might even push to make it look life a bluff. a J will look you up. there is no way you are not ahead in this spot, like 99% you are ahead so bet the only question is how much to bet. bet half pot or push, depends on his calling propensity.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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no hand is calling that doesn't beat you.

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IMO, we SS'ers lose alot of value by checking behind on the river in situations like this. It's a leak in my game that I am working on. I think this is a clear value bet, 1/2 pot or so to be consistent with Hero's actions. The 2nd 5 on the board is huge, counterfeiting all of villian's possible 2 pairs. He's calling with alot of hands here that we beat. He's gone c/c, c/c, check. Take it for what it looks like, and value bet the river.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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is this a joke?

you are all joking, right? given he has less than a pot bet left in his stack (and thus is not trying to get fancy with a river check raise to make more when you are deep) and thus you ain't scared of a c/r, there is no reason to not value bet this river.

i might even push to make it look life a bluff. a J will look you up. there is no way you are not ahead in this spot, like 99% you are ahead so bet the only question is how much to bet. bet half pot or push, depends on his calling propensity.

[/ QUOTE ]everyone just listeb to duck.
that river card was the nuts for you... it hit so many of his hands... squeeze some value man.

Re: Value betting the river
 

Easy all in. What the heck are you guys talking about? Do the people who said the check even play 1/2 6max?

Re: Value betting the river
 

i agree, i'm confused

seems like an easy value bet, or even a push

Re: Value betting the river
 

Value betting here very much depends on reads on villain. If he is loose-passive enough to call with a worse hand, bet. If not, check behind.

Re: Value betting the river
 

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Value betting here very much depends on reads on villain. If he is loose-passive enough to call with a worse hand, bet. If not, check behind.

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This doesn't make sense really. Try again to explain what you are saying here. As it stands, it sounds like you are saying don't bet because he probably won't call with a worse hand. So don't try? I don't see villain letting this one go very often, if he has liked his hand thus far, and the J could easily have made him falsely comfortable with his TJ "top two" hand.

-T

Re: Value betting the river
 

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This doesn't make sense really. Try again to explain what you are saying here. As it stands, it sounds like you are saying don't bet because he probably won't call with a worse hand. So don't try? I don't see villain letting this one go very often, if he has liked his hand thus far, and the J could easily have made him falsely comfortable with his TJ "top two" hand



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ok, sorry if it seemed unclear -what I mean is that against loose-passive donkeys a value bet here is pretty mandatory, but against tight, tricky players it could do more harm than good as they will not often show down a worse hand.

Re: Value betting the river
 

I agree that this is a pretty good spot for a value bet, but there's something about this logic that I find a bit confusing. Say Villain has KQc or 78c, or even JJ, hands which hit the river big. If villain open pushes the river, is hero always going to make a call getting 3:1? (I think I find a fold versus certain villains, though we have no read here.) On the other hand, if villain knows that everyone value bets their overpairs in spots like this, then checking the river seems like a +EV play, since it'll ensure that the money gets in after the check-raise. (It also gives hero a chance to bluff his missed draws, the times he has a hand like AKd.)

I'm a winner in the 1/2 game and I never have any of those T type hands op mentioned...you may get a crying call from TJ or JQ though.

Re: Value betting the river
 

first of all if he has those hands,especially the gut shot, good for him. it's far more likely he hit top pair or made a worse two pair on the river or maybe even will call with a T if he is truly bad.

you are not considering stack sizes in this response - c/r on river does not make sense when villain has less than pot left in his stack... that's why i say it's an autobet. if we were deep then while i'm probably still betting, a case could be made for checking. and in that case oyu have to worry to bet enough to seem strong while folding to a c/r. here none of that matters since villain has no money left. just put him in and be done with it.

think about hand ranges, not only the few hands he could have that are beating us. his hand range is large and we are crushing most of it, so stick the money in and stop playing scared poker.

Re: Value betting the river
 

Yo, after I was an ass and said this was such an easy river push, I'm curious for results.

Results
 

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Yo, after I was an ass and said this was such an easy river push, I'm curious for results.

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I checked behind, but after reading this thread, I agree that I shouldve bet the river. Thanks for the comments.

I won the hand but dont know what he had because the Prima skin that I play on doesnt show the players cards in the HHs if the player has automuck checked. It doesnt show up in PT either of course. Im not sure why this is the case, but its very annoying.