vegas trip report and hand
 

I'm on this big road trip, and so on the vegas stop we met up with coltrane and we dined and played some music and nut peddled in the 6 10/20 must moves that were going, at least one of which was a great game. I met the dude who opened the first portable outhouse business in alaska! he was a nice guy and didn't even raise me on the flop or turn with two pair [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

anyways, hand is at the wynn 5/10 against a big guy wearing a jersey that says "viffer" who probably doesn't respect my raises based on some earlier tomfoolery. I think bruiser posted a hand against him once. I have 1.5k and he has me covered.

I make it 40 behind one limper in MP with TT, villian cold calls and we're off to the races with 120 in the pot.

flop is 9 4 4 no flush draw. check check and I bet 80, villian calls, checkers fold.

turn is a 7, I check villian thinks and checks behind.

river is a Q, I bet 150 and villian very quickly makes in 400 straight.

how am I doing so far, and perhaps the less interesting question is what now?

hope everyone is doing well! road trip is going awesome!

--turnipmonster

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

fold... he has you beat

duke duke duke of earl

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

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fold... he has you beat


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I disagree, but I feel like too much depends on prior hands and your read for me to be of much help. I don't think it's obvious that he has you beat though.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

I'm not sure I understand the PF action... villian is behind us.. and we have two people in front of us, and there's only 120 in the pot?

Let's just pretend there's only 1 person in front of you.

PF: Standard.
Flop: Fine.
Turn: What do you think villian could have called you with on the flop? Probably any PP, and obviously a 9 or a 4. Will he fold these hands if you bet again? Will he call down with his pair hands? He's probably drawing at 5 outs at most., more likely only two. Is he capable of floating on you here to take the pot away later?

When you check to him on the turn, you are putting out the white flag and looking very weak, and yet villian didn't bet. This makes it likely that he's got something good, and doesn't want to scare you off. However, he also might just have a pair and be trying for a cheap showdown.

River: Block bet looks fine, if you think he was just looking for cheap showdown.

I think you have to fold to this raise. If he had air, I think he would have bet the turn. I can't really see a worse hand than yours raising here without having bet the turn.

Of course... this all comes down to read.

BTW: Have fun with your trip.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

turnip,

so here's the thing I've been thinking about this hand....when he calls you on the flop, you basically either put him on a 9 or a monster.....betting the turn is not a bad idea against a different opponent, maybe the reason not to here is because this Viffer character is apparently someone who might move you off the best hand - fine.....so you check the turn...

now the river was the thing I told you that day I didn't really like - I wasn't quite sure why, and checking was one alternative but I think we both agreed it's not all that great.....but I still don't like your bet, and I think I've come up with why.....basically, when you make a bet like $150, it's telling him that you don't like your hand enough to bet the turn, you didn't make queens-full, but you can beat a 9.....you know this guy's not a donk, he CAN'T call with a 9 there - so all he can do is fold or raise.....now, calling a river raise (which actually might be an option against someone you know is likely to bluff-raise there, but is probably a bad idea in this spot) is something you don't plan on doing....so I think the right move for you is to make a big pot-sized-ish bet on the river.....see now, if he has only a 9, from his point of view your bet no longer screams "value bet" but now could also be a whiffed AK bluff....I think he's actually much less likely to get tricky against a big bet and he's more likely to make a "pick-off" call, or fold, or raise only if he has the monster.....


EDIT: you know, now that I look at the actual numbers in your post, it's not quite what I thought - I was thinking that your flop bet and your river bet were a little closer in number.....still though, I think I like a bet of like $300 on the river.....

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Was this a big guy with reddish hair? Cause he is ultra-aggressive and you must make the call against him.

Basically, you need to give us more info about him other than what he is wearing and that he thinks you're a little loose. Is he very aggressive player?

Against many players this is an easy fold. Against others you must call.

Provide more details of what kind of player the villain is.

results
 

this guy was not ultra aggressive but I hadn't played more than 20 hands with him when this went down. he liked to cold call raises and play fit or fold.

I have no idea when I'll be near a computer again so the results are I bullet folded. it's a small raise and I can call it with lots of hands, I could have very well bet AQ on the flop and then hit a Q on the river, or I could just be bluffing with whatever in which case I think he could call with any 9. in hindsight I could have bet more I think.

coltrane made some great points as usual, my main question is what you guys think of a bet as opposed to a check on the end.

Re: results
 

i like your play on all streets...
i would fold the river INSTA.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Viffer plays a lot on PokerStars. 3-6 & up. Decent player.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

wait i want to hear about the rest of the trip.

i bet that turn unless i was really sure he'd bet or he was so aggressive / unreadable that i had to check. when he bets, i may do anything, with the default being call.

on the river can't help you make that decision.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Against Viffer, you call here. Prevaricator had an interesting hand against him at turning stone a few months ago... maybe he'd share. actually wasnt very interesting, just hilarious.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

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Against Viffer, you call here. Prevaricator had an interesting hand against him at turning stone a few months ago... maybe he'd share. actually wasnt very interesting, just hilarious.

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hmm, what did viffer look like?
maybe i have a hand vs him.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

boo, trip report sucks, we need sentences like: "So then this coked out stripper invites me to a porn party..." or soemthing.

As for the hand, given your description, why not check river? Villain will bet worse hands certainly more than he will bluff raise, no?

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Unfortunately you need to call the river raise based on the information we have about this guy Viffer.

That said, I really would prefer a check/call on the river. He is going to bluff with almost any hand on the river and pretty much only the queen is beating you. He is not checking behind most hands on the turn.

The beauty of the check/call is that you're not in this position of having to call the raise. He probably fires the pot (300 or so) with AK, AJ, AT, A9, Q9, 56, 23o, etc - that's how these games work. I am calling any pot (non-overbet) on the river. I think it's a much better line, and you do not have to worry about calling a raise for effectively the same amount of money.

Ezra

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

for those of you advocating a check on the river to let Viffer "bet worse hands", please tell me what hands worse than TT does Viffer call with on a 944 board and then bet on the river....I think a check by Turnip lets off a hand like a 9....of course, as Matt said, just betting the turn for value is an option, but at the same time, Viffer might fold a 9 on the turn (or raise) but call a big bet on the river thinking he's picking off a suspicious bet (especially if he's thus far thought turnip might be the goofing-type).....

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Given the history between the two, viffer wouldn't bet A9 on the river, thinking it's for value?

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

I think Viffer checks behind with a 9, especially after checking the turn....

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

It doesn't look like turnip missed and just made a continuation bet with AK on flop? if turnip bets flop, checks turn, checks river, I know I bet this a lot of the time, most think they are betting for value...am i way off? Maybe it's the online talking, flop bet, call, turn check check, river check is normally a very weak holding.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

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It doesn't look like turnip missed and just made a continuation bet with AK on flop?

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I definitely agree with you, but that's why Viffer will just check behind if he thinks his 9 is good, especially after a Q just popped up, because he knows Turnip isn't gonna CALL with AK....online it might be a good value bet, in this game it's not....

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
for those of you advocating a check on the river to let Viffer "bet worse hands", please tell me what hands worse than TT does Viffer call with on a 944 board and then bet on the river....I think a check by Turnip lets off a hand like a 9....of course, as Matt said, just betting the turn for value is an option, but at the same time, Viffer might fold a 9 on the turn (or raise) but call a big bet on the river thinking he's picking off a suspicious bet (especially if he's thus far thought turnip might be the goofing-type).....

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duh, viffer called with 3 high on the flop looking to outplay hero.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

This post was just brought to my atention. YEs im the same guy as online with red hair. I dont remember this hand but i can say i wouldnt of called preflop with A-9 so i either had the nuts or air. I am verry agressive and think if he was weak i would make that raise.

The hand you are spaking of with provicator went like this.

IM on button in a 10-20 nl game Prov makes a weak raise utg and i reraise on thebutton with 10-5 off suit. I was deap stacked and prov only had about 1500. Prov smoth called with AA and the flop comes 10-5 x. prov leads out and i put him all in he thinks and calls off his stack with 1 pair. He got viffed. Sorry prov it was a bad beat.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

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Against Viffer, you call here. Prevaricator had an interesting hand against him at turning stone a few months ago... maybe he'd share. actually wasnt very interesting, just hilarious.

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yeah, trying to trap with AA vs his reraise and ending up calling off my stack on the flop against a split two pair T3 is really hilarious, thanks for sharing jc.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

sorry bro tough hand, didnt mean to insult you if i did. Any one else have hands vs me, i probaly bluffed you. I run so bad i only win when i steel, i never make a hand. Ill prove it on the tables at stars [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

Actually the bet on river is horrid. Not gonna get called by any hand you can beat by me, puts enough into pot to make it worth a bluff. If i have nothing on river i probally check behing if he checks toi me, but 150$ bet puts enough into the pot to make it worth stealing. ALso a check on river could induce me to bluff.

Re: vegas trip report and hand
 

bumping an old thread, thanks for responding. you were cold calling a lot so I thought you could have very well had a 9 in that spot. if you can't have a 9 I agree the river bet is bad, and I think the amount was probably bad in either case.