My first hand in a while...
 

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I've been swamped with school work. I finally got to play today and here's a hand I have a question about...

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.01.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results:
Hero has Kh Qd (straight, king high).
BB has 3c 9c (one pair, nines).
UTG+1 has Th Kd (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

Was it ok for me to take the free card or should I have pushed the pot?

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

At this limit... I bet that every time.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

Looks good.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

I'm not sure what a turn bet would accomplish for you. If this were 2 handed or maybe even 3 handed then it's possible you could be best with King high and a bet might force out lower cards that could pair up or set you up for a steal on the river, but at least one of your 3 opponents has a pair of something and they aren't letting go of it in this large pot.

You aren't going to fold a better King or a better Q either. Some worse hands are going to call which lessens the cost of a bet, but I don't think you're making a profit on it. So a bet doesn't protect your hand (even a gutshot will have odds to call), nor does it have immediate value since you're just too likely to be behind to at least a pair.

So, I would take this free card pretty much every time, though I have never played lower than .50/1 so I could be making some poor assumptions. Actually, a limit like $1/$2 is probably the perfect limit to bet this against the right opponents since you can get the weak-tighties to make a "big laydown", but at .50/1 and probably anything lower you just get "weak" and not so much tight. Anyway, I don't think a bet loses you much since you do have some decent equity, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

played 100% perfectly!

i love the free card!!!!!! i win so much $ with it, its disgusting.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I guess I the books are helping. =)

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

More options for winning on river or turn (even if you miss you give yourself a chance to win this pot) , larger pot (implied odds at this limit)
Not saying that taking the free card here is wrong. Just that i'll bet it.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking the free card on the turn is fine, however I think betting is better.

The reason is that you may take it down right there. If you miss on the river you're likely beaten, so a bet allows you a bit of fold equity right now. You've been the aggressor, so you have that edge.

I like the free card if you think you'll induce a bluff from an EP player and hopefully be able to raise a bunch of players if you hit. However, other than a little resistance early in the hand, the others have been pretty passive, so I can't really think a bluff is coming.

With this many players in, I'd prefer to bet it and either take it down or build a bigger pot for myself should I hit the hand.

The free card play is a great tool, but I think in this particular situation you have great equity with plenty of opponents who will pay you off.

Regards,

T

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The reason is that you may take it down right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a 0% chance of all three opponents folding to a single turn bet.

[ QUOTE ]
If you miss on the river you're likely beaten, so a bet allows you a bit of fold equity right now. You've been the aggressor, so you have that edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't hit on the river, you're absolutely beaten, unless you think all your opponents (including the one who bet into you as the preflop raiser) can't beat K high. Betting this turn also means inevitably betting the river and hoping everyone else folds since your hand has little showdown value.

[ QUOTE ]
With this many players in, I'd prefer to bet it and either take it down or build a bigger pot for myself should I hit the hand. The free card play is a great tool, but I think in this particular situation you have great equity with plenty of opponents who will pay you off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 8 clean outs to the nuts (four aces, four nines). Your overcards are worth about 3 outs. 11 outs gives us a little less than 25% pot equity. So even if you bet and all players call, your bet is not even EV neutral.

In a situation like this, I would take the free card every time. At nano-limits, opponents take the craziest hands to show down. There's no way you're winning this hand unless you hit on the river.

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

The above post is EXACTLY what I wanted to say, Thanks dude.

<ul type="square">[*]Not enough equity to bet.[*] <font color="blue">at 1c/2c - 99% will call (made up figure...) </font>[*]You don't have a hand in need of protection[*]Perfect illustration of "the free card play"[/list]

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

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I think you have a 0% chance of all three opponents folding to a single turn bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

At .01/.02, okay, I have no experience at that limit. At .5/1 or higher, you have equity.

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Betting this turn also means inevitably betting the river and hoping everyone else folds since your hand has little showdown value.


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Well, if the fold equity is 0% on the turn, it's going to be just slightly over 0% on the river at this limit.

[ QUOTE ]

You have 8 clean outs to the nuts (four aces, four nines). Your overcards are worth about 3 outs. 11 outs gives us a little less than 25% pot equity. So even if you bet and all players call, your bet is not even EV neutral.


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It's a very slight -EV situation if you take out all fold equity. But if you add in the implied odds if you hit, I think a case can be made for betting the turn. You'll likely get all to call on the turn (remember fold equity is 0%), so there's 4 big bets, and you'll get at least a couple callers on the river for another couple big bets.

My brain is fried from playing PL Omaha last night, so I'm just not up to the math this morning, but I think this is worth betting - even in the no-fold'em nanos.

I admit to not really paying attention to the limits on this one. I just assumed the players were not insane. My apologies for that.

Regards,

T

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The above post is EXACTLY what I wanted to say, Thanks dude.

<ul type="square">[*]Not enough equity to bet.[*] <font color="blue">at 1c/2c - 99% will call (made up figure...) </font>[*]You don't have a hand in need of protection[*]Perfect illustration of "the free card play"[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]

Who's protecting? I'm building a pot with this hand. It was an illustration of a good free card play, but I'm not sure it was really necessary here.

Regards,

T

Re: My first hand in a while...
 

Nicely played. At this limit, I like a turn bet, though. It's right on the edge of a value bet, and might clean out a K or Q enough for you to be good by spiking top pair.

Make a note of MP3 call/folding on the flop, especially since he was getting worse odds to call the first bet than the second.

Make BB a buddy immediately, if UB supports the function.

I'm surprised nobody bet into you on the river, but it's been awhile since I played this low. I remember the players being much more aggressive.

Remember, the free card play works much better against passive opponents.