Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

I'm playing 2/4 at Poker Room, my first orbit ever on the site.

I'm on the button wtih Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Folded to me I raise, sb folds, BB (Unknown) Calls

Flop 4.5 SB
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font color="red"> Villian Bets, </font>Hero...

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

I think it is close between calling and raising most turns and just raising the flop.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

You can probably peel one here if you like on the chance that BB will check the turn. You may have overs to 2nd or 3rd pair, plus gutshot, plus BDFD.

But I also think just folding is probably fine. Pot is small, and you really are only going to know where you are if you hit one of 4 outs.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

I think effective odds are terrible here. Sure he may have 9X or 66, but I'm still behind and I have to call 2.5 BB (assuming a call down which is probably incorrect). That is 3.5:2.5

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

Just fold.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

i'd rather just call. it's doubtful you'll get a free card if not 3-bet here and he's not folding an 8 or 9 HU (obviously not read based), but we have the BDFD, possible 6 outs for OCs, and a gutshot for a peel.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.

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I agree that it's almost never a K. This is usually 2nd/3rd pair or a draw, but we are still often behind, and players at this level are taking 2nd/3rd pair to showdown. What's your plan after the turn raise?

jvs

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.

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I agree that it's almost never a K. This is usually 2nd/3rd pair or a draw, but we are still often behind, and players at this level are taking 2nd/3rd pair to showdown. What's your plan after the turn raise?

jvs

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I raise counting on having at least 7 out on average. Only a read could make me fold and I'm as good as never calling. After getting called on the flop I bet the turn for a free sd.

EDIT: if I get 3-betting on the flop I'm calling and folding the turn UI. If I get check/raised on the turn I fold.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

I would raise and take a free card. I'm calling a river Q/T and raising a J (duh!).

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.

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I have way less than ten outs

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.

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just as a note, i often lead the flop with my monsters just as much as i checkraise raise them, if not more.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

Call. Don't spew bets into this small pot. He is not going to fold here.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

He's not going toi fold. I see people do this with hands like 77 for some reason that I dont understand. I take one off and fold to turn.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

10 outs = 3 Q's
3 T's
4 gut shot
plus a backdoor flush draw.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

In my Pokerroom experience, people bet/3-bet the flop against a steal a hell of a lot, especially on a board like this, and often with nothing/close to nothing. I think the villian is thinking (rightly) that you're weak since you were on a steal. That being said it is hard to put him on a hand. probably call flop and bet if checked to on the turn. If bet into UI on the turn, reevaluate, but probably drop it.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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10 outs = 3 Q's
3 T's
4 gut shot
plus a backdoor flush draw.

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Your overcards are much devalued because roughly 1/3 the time your opponent actually does have a pair, he has a King. Furthermore, You could be reverse dominated on the Q or T. I'd say you have roughly 7 outs, including the BDFD. Peel one and hope he checks the turn if you miss.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

I just folded. I think it's close between that and peeling and folding turn UI. I think a raise is bad unless you are fairly confident you can see the river for free. The pot is really small and showing down this hand is pretty expensive relative to the size of the pot.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

Anyone like raising here and betting any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q, T, J (obviously) on the turn?. I think he can lead here with a wide range of hands, alot of which you have several outs against. JT is one, something like A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is another.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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Anyone like raising here and betting any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q, T, J (obviously) on the turn?. I think he can lead here with a wide range of hands, alot of which you have several outs against. JT is one, something like A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is another.

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Why are you going to war with a marginal hand with little UISD value in a small pot? If you can't show me a calculation that shows this to be +EV, it's not worth the variance.

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.

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just as a note, i often lead the flop with my monsters just as much as i checkraise raise them, if not more.

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right, but you arent a 2/4 donkey

Re: Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
 

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Just fold.

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