Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

This situation has happened to me 3-4 times in the last few days and even this morning I'm still not sure what the best line is.

Situation-
$20-$100 MTT. I have around 1500 chips. With blinds at 25/50 I'm in EP with AK and make it 150 to go. MP (no reads) with 1500 chips calls. Two to the flop.

Flop comes something like A94r. I bet 2/3P (~250) and MP min-raises me (to ~500). What is my line?

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

I think you don't quite give us enough info as to buy in, there's a difference between a 20+2 and a 100 buy in. You don't give us site either, that's somewhat important, but whatever.

I voted other because there's no push option. WHY? This is the most obvious choice for me. This is a really easy push, and I think anything other than that is really weak tight. Let's evaluate our options:

1. Fold- This is awful to me. You're telling me you're folding TPTK heads up? I just don't think you can ever have this kind of a read in an online tourney. If he got lucky and hit two pair that's just bad luck, but you still have outs. Party donks love minraising, doesn't mean they always have the best hand. He could just be doing it to see wher ehe is.

2. Call- I guess you could call here, but I think it's dangerous. You're pretty much committed by calling as you're putting in a little over 1/3 your chips in. Not terrible, but I just don't see a reason to let villian draw. AK isn't bulletproof, I wouldn't even instacall here with top two. A set sure. I like pushing better just because even if he folds you increase your stack by 1/3 while also giving him a chance to make a mistake.


I really don't see any way you can raise less than all in and not commit yourself to an all in at some point anyway. Might as well get all your chips in with the best hand.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

Dave,
I like the call with either a checkraise or a lead because that way we can get more chips from AQ, AJ. Pushing may run them out.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

I have to come over the top for another 600, expecting to call his all-in if he pushes.

I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped by a set or the guy playing 94s in this same exact situation, but I will still do it every time - <font color="blue"> but in all serious </font> - think about your fold equity? You are +EV and you are a definately heavy favorite vs. any 2 random cards. -- sorry, I am not a wiz with the exact numbers.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

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Dave,
I like the call with either a checkraise or a lead because that way we can get more chips from AQ, AJ. Pushing may run them out.

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I don't think AQ, AJ folds to a push here.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dave,
I like the call with either a checkraise or a lead because that way we can get more chips from AQ, AJ. Pushing may run them out.

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I don't think AQ, AJ folds to a push here.

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I agree. And I don't want worse hands drawing.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dave,
I like the call with either a checkraise or a lead because that way we can get more chips from AQ, AJ. Pushing may run them out.

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I don't think AQ, AJ folds to a push here.

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I agree. And I don't want worse hands drawing.

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But they're most likely drawing to 3 outs. give them a chance to put more money in there.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

This happened twice in two different PS 73+7 WPT Satellites, and it also happened in a PP 30+3 &amp; a FullTilt 24+2.

I'm looking for a general line or approach - or maybe a list of considerations or things to take into account. Obviously each situation is going to be slightly different (buy-in, site, stack sizes, flop, positions, reads, etc.)

In a way this hand is similar to the Masters #2 hand - in that one question we need to resolve is 'how do I handle the min-raise?' - although my hand is not as strong as top 2 pair (as in Gigabet's M2 hand) and in this case I am out of position.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

Given the stack sizes this is either a fold or a raise. Flat calling this just sucks unless you can get away from this hand on a blank turn card which you won't. If you have a great read that this guy has AQ or AJ flat call. If you don't raising him is the only option for a cheap showdown. STack sizes suck here as you cant do anything without getting yourself pot committed.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This happened twice in two different PS 73+7 WPT Satellites, and it also happened in a PP 30+3 &amp; a FullTilt 24+2.

I'm looking for a general line or approach - or maybe a list of considerations or things to take into account. Obviously each situation is going to be slightly different (buy-in, site, stack sizes, flop, positions, reads, etc.)

In a way this hand is similar to the Masters #2 hand - in that one question we need to resolve is 'how do I handle the min-raise?' - although my hand is not as strong as top 2 pair (as in Gigabet's M2 hand) and in this case I am out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

One reason I'm really confident that a push is the right play here is that in the 30+3 and probably the 24+2 it will very very often get called, by worse hands. Even if he folds, you still get an extra 650 chips, or a little more than 1/3 of your previous stack. To me, that's a fine extraction. I think a push is the only real way to make sure he pays the most wrong price, while trying to bet the turn might not even get you action.

Don't know about the quality of play in the 70 buy in.

Re: Common Situation Lately - Best Line?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm looking for a general line or approach - or maybe a list of considerations or things to take into account.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, stack size is the overwhelming factor in this hand, and in most online multis. With so much of your stack already in the middle, you just don't have enough room to lay this down or make any fancy moves.

Assuming the blind structure is fast, that just adds to the urgency.

Push and hope for the best.

In the WSOP main event, on the other hand, it would be hugely foolish to play this hand fast early in the tournament.

Thoughts and results
 

Here are my thoughts-

My opponent either has a pair (22-KK), a weaker ace (eg A6s), or a monster (one of the 3 possible sets or two pair); of course he could also be playing back with KQ or 78s, but that is less likely IMO. Any one of these hands could min raise as 22-KK and Axs could be asking “Did you really flop top pair?” and the monster hands could be saying “I know you didn’t hit the flop as hard as I did, but if you do have TPGK then I know you’re not going to fold to a min-raise and I’ll try to put you on a payment plan”.


Here is what I think about some of my options-

1) Folding is somewhat weak/tight – if you always fold to a raise when you CB there is no way you’ll ever be a winning player. It might be correct to fold some percentage of the time, but this seems like a small percentage to me. If the stacks were smaller, I would probably push and if the stacks were deeper I would probably re-raise for info – but as mentioned these are awkward sized stacks, so I do think folding is a viable – but not preferable option.

2) Calling and leading the turn for info might be cheaper than re-reraising the flop, but it might also be giving a cheap card to hands like Ax. Again, I think this is a viable option, but not one I would use very often.

3) Calling and waiting to see if he fires a second barrel – I prefer to do this when I have position, but when I’m OOP it seems I can usually count on another seeing another bet – so I don’t have any more information and it is costing me more chips – kind of a reverse implied odds situation. OTOH, if we assume that we are WAWB we might want to check-call to the river because if we are ahead we’ll be inducing bets from a worse hand and if we are behind we will be hopefully saving chips.

4) Re-raising a small amount – this might be a cheap way to get information, and you are still charging him a little extra if he has Ax. It also helps to define your hand as you are answering his question by saying “Yes, I do have TPGK”.

5) Re-raising a large amount / pushing – if you feel that your hand is too strong to get away from given the stack sizes this might well be our only option.


Results-

I don’t usually use passive approaches - I’m usually betting and raising so options 1,2,3 weren’t very appealing. One time I re-raised a large amount (option #5) and called a push – only to be shown a set.

The three other times I min-reraised (option #4), for the reasons I stated above and figuring that I’ll be “speaking his language”. All three times my opponent pushed, I folded, and he showed a set.

Now I don’t want to be results oriented to the point where everytime I see a min-raise I think I have to fold, but my min-reraise play seems kind of hokey even though it saved my bacon a few times. Thoughts?