What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

First giving my standard disclaimer that I don't care about rakeback/rewards at all for myself, a lot of the rakeback affiliates here look like a bunch of whores when the only man in town with any money walks through the doors of the brothel. They all run to him and start promising him a lower price, and also tell him that all the other whores will roll him for his wallet and give him the clap. All that man wanted was a good fvck at a reasonable price without getting a disease or waking up and finding his wallet gone. But lo and behold! If one of dem hoes should rob that guy of his wallet, then all the other hoes will rush to her defense and say they don't blame her one little bit, because that man is after all just a sucker to them.

While granting that this doesn't apply accross the board, don't some of you players who are just looking to get something back for all your play think this is an apt analogy?

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

No.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

Just wondering, but which affiliates have jumped to Busters defence here???

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

No caring about getting rakebake is not very smart. I would think you don't play alot is way you don't care. If you do play and don't care about getting $5,000 back, then that's not to smart.

I have no offers to give you by the way.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
No caring about getting rakebake is not very smart. I would think you don't play alot is way you don't care. If you do play and don't care about getting $5,000 back, then that's not to smart.

I have no offers to give you by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play 6-7 days a week for 8+ hours a day. The reason I don't care bout rakeback is because I only play big pot-limit and no-limit tables and the rake there just doesn't add up like it does in limit.

But my point here, which the poster w/the union comment gets, is that so many rakeback affiliates really care only about themselves. Even if that scumbag welcher Buster is a minority as far as not paying the last rakeback due this players, a lot of affiliates thought the gravy train would never end and that not only should it continue, but that their players should be loyal to them no matter how market conditions changed.

I don't care about rakeback for myself, but I do feel for the little guy in these forums, struggling at low limits, either to eek out a living or trying to grow his roll and improve his ability to the point where he can make a good living playing poker. I realize that rakeback is important to him, and maybe the only thing keeping him afloat while he is learning or through a dry spell.

But all lots of the rakeback affiliates care about is how party's move affected them, and their only concern is not losing their cash cow, NOT how their players are getting by without rakeback. They keep telling them to waaaaaaaaaaait and seeeeeeeeeeee, when that player needs to be in action NOW to make a living or at least meet certain expenses.

All those little guys, toiling in front of their computers for hours day in and day out are who really matters, overall and in these 2+2 forums. This is a forum primarily dedicated to strategy and poker players, not to all those who live off the poker economy like affiliates, b&m dealers or casino chip and playing card makers, even though they do fulfill a necessary purpose. (2+2 Publishing and Conjelco being different of course since they run the site and provide us the free opportunity to use it.)

Even though the bonus affiliates may be looked upon as total leaches since they get a continual revenue stream for just one transaction per customer with no continuing support, they are the real ones bringing in new customers to poker sites which is totally necessary if a site is to continue in business and winning players are to keep winning. Whereas all the rakeback affiliates are doing is cannibalizing the existing poker player base already playing. They do serve a purpose to the little guy wanting some rakeback in theory, although any real rewards program from party will just show they were standing in the way of same all along.

So all you little guys looking for a good rakeback or rewards program, keep looking talking about it, and compare and get referrals. And if a certain site won't give you anything meaningful, then take your business elsewhere IF you can find as good of games to play in.

And watch out. Because lots of the hoes will just roll you and give you the clap ta boot.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]


I play 6-7 days a week for 8+ hours a day. The reason I don't care bout rakeback is because I only play big pot-limit and no-limit tables and the rake there just doesn't add up like it does in limit.



[/ QUOTE ]

Must be nice not to need an extra 3k or so per month...

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I play 6-7 days a week for 8+ hours a day. The reason I don't care bout rakeback is because I only play big pot-limit and no-limit tables and the rake there just doesn't add up like it does in limit.



[/ QUOTE ]

Must be nice not to need an extra 3k or so per month...

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesnt want to be treated like a john.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]

I play 6-7 days a week for 8+ hours a day. The reason I don't care bout rakeback is because I only play big pot-limit and no-limit tables and the rake there just doesn't add up like it does in limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf are you talking about? you hate money?
playing 6-8 hours of 5/10nl+ everyday, You are missing out on about 60k from rakeback every month.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

You added an extra 0 and even then are making some wrong assumptions. I only play 3 tables max and when I say I play that much, not all of it is on party, only 65%, and the rake on big bet still is not as much as on limit. And I actually have multiple accounts on party through relative's names and set them up long ago. And I only set up 1 skin account in a further effort to mask my play from regular players. Plus the fact is that I make too much there to violate their T&C in any way which rakeback does. But hey, thanks for looking out for my interests.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not incentive compatible so it wouldn't work.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually have multiple accounts on party through relative's names and set them up long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I make too much there to violate their T&C in any way which rakeback does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny guy...

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are missing out on about 60k from rakeback every month.


[/ QUOTE ]

That figure is wrong by a factor of about 20.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so what would a player's union do exactly? And how would it be funded?

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

Heheh

You avoid getting rakeback not to break their T&C...

And then you play from multiple accounts in your relatives names.

Hahahahah

Hilarious [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are missing out on about 60k from rakeback every month.


[/ QUOTE ]

That figure is wrong by a factor of about 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think he could be getting 1200k in rakeback per month?

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are missing out on about 60k from rakeback every month.


[/ QUOTE ]

That figure is wrong by a factor of about 20.

[/ QUOTE ]
my mistake, I ment to write every year. lol
my poker tracker says I paid about 6k in rake over 30k hands, so assuming you play 6~8hr day (about 2k hands/ day), you should pay about 12k or so every month, so you get about 4k/ month in rakeback *12 which is close to 50.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so what would a player's union do exactly? And how would it be funded?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, for one we could create a private forum that caters to players needs (ie no ads, no spam, REAL open discussion)

we could form our own rakeback where the absolute smallest amount is taken off the top to pay for expensess/whatever (no affiliates getting rich off us)

we could potentially have power in numbers which could give us barganing/deal making power w/ poker sites.

All this is just an idea now, but i would like to see somehting like this happen.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

A group of players could create a nonprofit or co-op that plays the role of the affiliate. Someone still has to do the work, but the tables would be turned, sort of.

edit: If the organization were large enough, it could negotiate with the sites directly, independent of the affiliate-based marketing system.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so what would a player's union do exactly? And how would it be funded?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, for one we could create a private forum that caters to players needs (ie no ads, no spam, REAL open discussion)

we could form our own rakeback where the absolute smallest amount is taken off the top to pay for expensess/whatever (no affiliates getting rich off us)

we could potentially have power in numbers which could give us barganing/deal making power w/ poker sites.

All this is just an idea now, but i would like to see somehting like this happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys have NO IDEA!@$~!%#^$&%^*%i&^$#@%!#@$

this is exactly how i started as an affiliate. my buddies and i thought it was cool to get something back at the end of each month for our player. blah blah, over time we grew and grew. then i joined up with morg, and boom! raketracker was out. at that time our user base was huge, and in the past year we only continued to grow. now we have something like 4 or 5,000 players.

anyway, we are like a union... you guys have no idea how hard we fight for you. trying to get you the best %s, trying to get you bonuses, adding games / other options that our users ask. i wish i could list the stuff i have done for my players... everyone just takes it for granted.

im sorry this is not a rant, im just sick of ppl thinking affiliates are lairs/scumbags based on the actions of 1 or 2 affiliates.

i work about 8-10 hours a day 7 days a week on this affiliate stuff. yes, i get paid well, but its work. nothing is free! i just need a hug

bye, ryan

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

the point of said union would not be strictly rake related. Also the point of it would be that affiliates would NOT be well paid. If it was set up corectly, not much work would be involved and i would be willing to donate my time to it (and im sure others would too)

im not saying your evil and greedy, or that any other specific affiliate is. But they way it works now is that you have to have money to make money, and its at the expense of the player too often.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

First my disclaimer, I'm a small affiliate who worked at one site, where I also played, for the past year.
Most of rakeback affiliates being whores is not an intelligent, informed opinion and the idea of a union is exactly what they represent. Why call them names for taking a couple percent off the top when they get an individual player more than he could ever get on his own? There are plenty of instances of crooks or affiliates that aren't looking out for their players, but you would need to illustrate these examples specifically against the large group of affiliates that do good business.
This is a paid forum and difficult sometimes to have a forthright discussion about rakeback, but any attempt to do so that I've seen is with the player's interests in mind. That is just good business. And you insult them for it? Players looking for answers that cannot be provided here won't have much difficulty getting them answered elsewhere, if they choose to look.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
the point of said union would not be strictly rake related. Also the point of it would be that affiliates would NOT be well paid. If it was set up corectly, not much work would be involved and i would be willing to donate my time to it (and im sure others would too)

im not saying your evil and greedy, or that any other specific affiliate is. But they way it works now is that you have to have money to make money, and its at the expense of the player too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

no matter how you handle it, its a LOT of work. someone is going to have to do that work, and he should be paid for it.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

i think that you are biasd, being a "well-payed" affil.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

Players' union is a loaded word. This indicates the group would need a public relations expert, so they don't get bad "spin," and a professional negotiator to be able to bargain with the site owners.

Liability for anything reaffirms that any group needs an attorney.

Money to be handled cries out for a real accountant.

Of course until the group reaches a critical mass, you don't really need full time people, but you do need customer service support and programmers to run any organization.

There are other jobs to be done. While the per person cost isn't very high, you will need more people for every couple hundred members.

Because poker players are not going to "pay" for the service if it comes out of their pockets, it has to be paid by someone else who makes a profit, and that is where the affiliates come in. Be honest, even if you knew you were saving $200 bucks a month, would you really pay $49.95 up front to be a member?

So who do you think is going to be poised to pull off a player group? Who has the long term knowledge, the business sense, and the contacts? Surprisingly there are quite a few knowledgeable people who love poker, because the job isn't going to be an easy one!

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we need to form a union. We would look after our interests and not profit from other player's rake. We should seriously consider doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not incentive compatible so it wouldn't work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, basically we can't shut ourselves down, because whoever stays behind on a site is going to have AWESOME games... prisoners dilema, and everyone stays and gets shafted equally. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

However, one thing that was suggested, when party raised the rake on 6-max games, was that everyone could sit at a 6-max table and just not play, so that the games were 5-max at the lower rake.

This might have given party a clear idea of what was involved in [censored] over their players. I said I'd do it, no one supported it.

--Dave.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

can i please be jimmy hoffa?

before he was killed

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
the point of said union would not be strictly rake related. Also the point of it would be that affiliates would NOT be well paid. If it was set up corectly, not much work would be involved and i would be willing to donate my time to it (and im sure others would too)

im not saying your evil and greedy, or that any other specific affiliate is. But they way it works now is that you have to have money to make money, and its at the expense of the player too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but you sound like a clueless liberal (or a commie) with the "it wouldn't be that hard" idea. It would take a TON of work to do this correctly. Whenever you have a lot of people all under one hood, naturally leadership needs to be put in place, otherwise it's a huge clusterfuck of miscommunication, frustration, etc. The "leadership" is going to have to work his/her/their ass off. That won't last for long on a pro bono basis. They're going to want compensation. Thus, you're left with a new affiliate.

That's how unions work. Union members (often) benefit, but the union leaders do pretty well for themselves.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point of said union would not be strictly rake related. Also the point of it would be that affiliates would NOT be well paid. If it was set up corectly, not much work would be involved and i would be willing to donate my time to it (and im sure others would too)

im not saying your evil and greedy, or that any other specific affiliate is. But they way it works now is that you have to have money to make money, and its at the expense of the player too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but you sound like a clueless liberal (or a commie) with the "it wouldn't be that hard" idea. It would take a TON of work to do this correctly. Whenever you have a lot of people all under one hood, naturally leadership needs to be put in place, otherwise it's a huge clusterfuck of miscommunication, frustration, etc. The "leadership" is going to have to work his/her/their ass off. That won't last for long on a pro bono basis. They're going to want compensation. Thus, you're left with a new affiliate.

That's how unions work. Union members (often) benefit, but the union leaders do pretty well for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]


hahaha a commie? you cant be serious.


I think that this idea would be possible given that some people would be willing to put some work in. I think in the long run it could save quite a bit of money. The big affiliates take a LARGE percent of your rakeback as it is now. (when you get say 28%, they are taking around 7% of your rake, give or take).

I would be willing to do a lot of "cheap" work. Im sure others would too. If we got like 200-1000 players, <1% or even a flat fee per player would be worth the rakeback work IMO.

Re: What a Lot of Rakeback Affiliates Look Like To Me
 

Bluff,

You always amaze me with your sage thoughts.

I am fairly new to the game - started playing low limit earlier this year. I am one of those players you speak of who could benefit from rake back to help subsidize my “tuition” as I learn the game. I had signed up with Party long before I knew what rake back was. I signed with another site after I knew about rb. It does help (I don’t play all that much). But, like you say - the tables are limited on other sites.

I just wanted to let you know your thoughts are always appreciated by me. Good post(s).

RJT