74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

i don't know who this was, but it was funny. whoever you are, you'd been stealing a lot in this situation and i just didn't have the cards to defend. so i took a stand here with one of my favorite hands. postflop was easy.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (2+2er) raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (2+2er) caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">2+2er bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">2+2er bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">2+2er bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, 2+2er calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

2+2er: wow...never speak again ep

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

What's wrong with calling preflop?

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

ropflflflllllllllllll owned. thats a sick sick sick river card. should bet/fold that river mr. villain. or check-call so you can see MDs cards and berate him.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

Yeah I don't really get it. Postflop is easy as you say and reraising preflop with hands like 74s is a good thing if you don't take it too far. Nice hand.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

I hope you told him that he is teh sux.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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What's wrong with calling preflop?

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nothing, but i don't think there's anything wrong with reraising as he has tried to steal against me over 50% of the time and i've folded all 5 or 6 times so far with 72o, 42o, etc.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

I think I might be missing something here. You are getting frustrated by his constant blind stealing so you make a stand, correct? But you do it with 4-7s, so you obviously are doing it to outplay him post-flop. Unless you put him on 4-6 or less, which is doubtful. So the flop hits relatively well for you. But you don't try to outplay him by raising, you play to hit the draw. The turn opens your draw up a bit more, but you still don't try to raise him. Good for you that you hit your straight, but this does not seem to be a very +EV play. At least if you raise you are representing a hand that he might fold.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

3-betting pf tells him you are sick of his stealing, if that's what he's doing.

Did the guy have an A? Was he on a steal this time or did he think that you'd think he'd be stealing? Probably an A-rag steal attempt, I suppose...?

nh.

CrayZee

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

he capped preflop and the flop came ace high. raising at any point before i make my hand is simply wasting money, because he's not going to fold any pair or any ace.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

I understand that raising is just losing more money, but how does that justify calling the draw that you will lose way more than you will win. I'm not saying its wrong, but what's the logic? That you hit one of 4 outs, 8 on the turn? You are clearly only playing for the straight. This seems to be more of the type of play to make in a multi way pot to at least get some odds to call. And if the turn does not give you more outs, do you fold to his bet?

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

Well there are a few different ways that he could have played this hand. Raising somewhere is certainly a valid move though it probably doesn't figure to work on this flop with 2 thinking players. If Myles has an ace (and not AK or aces up) it doesn't really do him much good to throw a raise in. The villian will be drawing to a 20:1 or 30:1 shot too often to not play it slow. So the plan for MD will be to raise the best aces and then raise some garbage hands like 74s. Stuff like AT should just be called to get maximum value from hands like KQ/QJ/KT/etc. This is a very effective strategy IMO. I'm pretty sure that he would have raised the turn if he did not pick up the OESD but I could be wrong about that. Another valid play would have been to raise the river on a missed draw, but that takes balls and has to work fairly often to make it profitable. Players like myself can pull it off since I love to wait until the river to raise hands like AQ, but I can't speak for Myles b/c I don't know his MO in this hand. It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on what the plan was if he didn't find the OESD or a pair.

But you do it with 4-7s, so you obviously are doing it to outplay him post-flop.

No you are doing it to mix your play up. If he was trying to outplay him, he would have just called preflop with the intention of auto-raising the flop or turn. This is a silly strategy in online play unless you are also willing to just call preflop with big hands as well.

Brad

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

I would have called preflop but I'm often raising the flop (obviously I don't raise once I was capped preflop). I do this occasionally with a fairly wide range of hands, but I don't 3-bet 74s-type hands unless I really think he's just itching to fold to me postflop.

Rob

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

yeah this is like a never kind of thing for me, but i had folded several times here (i had also folded my SB when it was folded to me as well) and had a pretty rockish image. i did plan on him folding several flops. it just happened that this time he had a legitimate hand (JJ - and paid off with it nicely).

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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yeah this is like a never kind of thing for me, but i had folded several times here (i had also folded my SB when it was folded to me as well) and had a pretty rockish image. i did plan on him folding several flops. it just happened that this time he had a legitimate hand (JJ - and paid off with it nicely).

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His river play sucks.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

yeah, completely.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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(JJ - and paid off with it nicely).

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Ha! I knew it!! Ok, maybe not.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

Raise the turn to get him to put down a non-ace hand?

Edit: I see that you're of the opinion that he won't lay that down here... Okay then.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

I personally like calling the low suited connectors preflop, I'd certainly reraise like A2s+, A4o+, K8o+, K6s+, any PP, and other hands as well...basically erring on the side of hands with showdown value unimproved. There's the deception thing, so I don't hate this play by any means, but you get a lot of "deception" from the fact that no one trusts anyone - meaning you can play hands straight up a lot of the time.

But, your PF 3-bet and his cap gave you odds to peel the flop, so rock on! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

Interesting hand.
Does anybody see value in raising the turn?

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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But, your PF 3-bet and his cap gave you odds to peel the flop, so rock on! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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yeah, haha.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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I understand that raising is just losing more money, but how does that justify calling the draw that you will lose way more than you will win. I'm not saying its wrong, but what's the logic? That you hit one of 4 outs, 8 on the turn? You are clearly only playing for the straight. This seems to be more of the type of play to make in a multi way pot to at least get some odds to call.

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Do you know what pot odds are? (he's getting 9:1 on the flop, 6:1 on the turn, not counting rake) I can understand a free card raise on the flop, or a semibluff raise on the flop or turn, but folding this hand anywhere after the pf cap is atrocious.

Re: 74s big blind defense against a 2+2er who got mad at me.
 

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yeah this is like a never kind of thing for me, but i had folded several times here (i had also folded my SB when it was folded to me as well) and had a pretty rockish image. i did plan on him folding several flops. it just happened that this time he had a legitimate hand (JJ - and paid off with it nicely).

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His river play sucks.

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Why?