Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Bought in for $10k, short handed, down $600 so far, interesting to watch though, he is very aggressive which isn't paying off so far!

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

I'm looking forward to playing this when I get home.

Jeff

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Well Money has left now, about $300 up, looks like he does not enjoy playing full tables. 2 full tables of 30/60 going on now, a byproduct of Party getting rid of skins and rakeback?

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

i'm playing and this game looks great

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

he is back.

he should really have someone photoshop out that second chin

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

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Bought in for $10k

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha ha ha.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Anyone following the chat? Seems like something about payment from Moneymaker to another guy for some bet (sports?), if I am inferring correctly.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

There's scags!!

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

lol

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

I played with him a little bit later in the night and he didn't impress me at all. He played one hand terribly against me. I was showing something like 457 and he called me down with a pair of twos and hit runner runner for something like a 9 or T high straight.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

I want Moneymaker to play more stud/8, am sure the Stars tables were softer than usual with people trying it out as word got around Moneymaker was playing, I only recognised 1 person at my stud/8 1/2 table when I usually recognise 3+. Ended my 3 hours playing up 27 BBs, the other regular I recognised ended up 25 BBs, I think I'll join the Moneymaker fanclub!

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Mike, we don't have to get started on the whole Moneymaker's a fish baloney, but I briefly skimmed through his book while at a bookstore, and it seems he was a losing low limit hold em player on line before he won WSOP. It would not surprise me if he has no clue how to play 8/B.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

I actually bought and read his book for my flight home form college last summer and it was a good read. He was/is a degenerate gambler though. He placed well in one the WCOOP stud8 events so I assume that maybe he feels he has a feel for the game? I think it just proves my theory that stud8 tournaments involve a TON of luck. Either way...bad for him, good for mscags and jeffage.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
He placed well in one the WCOOP stud8 events so I assume that maybe he feels he has a feel for the game?

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I'm almost positive it was the Stud/8 WCOOP event he finished 3rd (again, I'm not 100% sure, but that was the only event I was following) [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm almost positive it was the Stud/8 WCOOP event he finished 3rd (again, I'm not 100% sure, but that was the only event I was following) .

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OK, I'm not losing my mind. Here's the link showing "Money800" finishing 3rd in Event #12 of the WCOOP-Stud Hi/Lo. "Emptyseat" is Scott Fishman finishing 2nd and "Fossilman" in 44th.

http://www.pokerstars.com/2005wcoop/event12.html

FWIW, he also finished 16th in the Stud Event
http://www.pokerstars.com/2005wcoop/event09.html

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Funny thing is that the guy that finished first I've been playing with pretty often, and I've seen him make some terrible plays. Even just easy things like playing something like 225 for a completion and raise. That's interesting. I didn't recognize any of the other finishers.

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

Is it possible that proper play in this game is extremely open to interpretation or do people just play that badly? I think most people who play this game have a clue to an extent so is it possible people have a basic understanding but have notched up their aggression/calling frequency in an attempt to outplay people on later streets b/c they think (rightly or wrongly) that they can read hands well and outplay people on later streets.

It seems the winners is this game often play hands "the book" tells them to discard and also plays them creatively and unconventionally. I just thinkt it's interesting how many different styles of play there are among the (seeming winners). Maybe I'll play later.

Jeff

Re: Moneymaker playing 30/60 Stud/8 on Stars
 

I agree with you Jeff, that there are a ton of diffferent ways to play a lot of different hands and I think hand reading is very important in this game along with deception. There is nothing better than having a disguised high hand going against another high and just punishing them. I really do think though that a lot of people just don't understand the game. I don't see how some people can be long term winners by playing such bad starting hands. I'm really confused with this 30-60 game so far. It plays unlike no other stud8 game I've ever played. I see some people making some of the dumbest plays IMHO but maybe I'm just missing something. I don't know sometimes

Here\'s a good example
 

Villian is the WCOOP champion. Does his play make any sense here? BTW I think I should have checked sixth. But why in the world would he bet fifth? I can make real good cases for him folding his hand on fifth

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.67 SB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (3.33 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls

6th Street - (7.33 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (9.33 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (9.33 BB)

Results:
Total pot $560 | Rake $3

Hero: [5h 2s 4c 6h 5s 9h Js] (HI: a pair of Fives)

Seat 4: [Th Kc As 3d Qd Tc 8c] (HI: a pair of Tens)

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

There are a couple players in that game who can play weird hands for what seems to be a profit, but that just looks awful.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

Is this Moneymaker? I guess he was trying to steal the antes from 2nd position by completing from 2nd position with TKA, rainbow, with the ace showing. I may be a fish, but I would fold on 3rd street. On 4th street his voard looked good so he continued. I guess he was still trying to win without a showdown by betting 5th street.

I assume he was semibluffing, hoping to win without a showdown and figuring he ahad a good chance of winning high, which mighteven be good for a scoop.

On fifth street, he has a gutshot and a good chance at a big pair, but it seems unlikely hero is going anywhere with 546 and almost certainly two low cards in the hole. Hero may have a made low, and probably a good one. If not, he has atleast a pair for high. Hero has obvious straight possibilities. Villain is down 72-28 on 5th street, and it is hard to see how hero could have cards that put villain in better shape than that.

I guess this is Moneymaker's aggressive style. I certainly wouldn't play the hand this way. Although villain appeared to catch a good card on 4th street, hero also caught a good card. Since hero almost certainly called with a strong razz hand, villain had a good chance of picking up the pot if hero caught bad. Once hero catches connecting low cards, I would be tenpted to cut my losses and fold 4th or 5th street. It is possible Moneymaker feels his ability to steal antes would be diminished if he folded.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

Hey, I know that kid and he's a tool (assuming you mean winner of final event). It appears he also sucks at Stud/8, huh?

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I know that kid and he's a tool (assuming you mean winner of final event). It appears he also sucks at Stud/8, huh?

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Who is villain in this hand? The original thread was about Moneymaker, and I know that Moneymaker did well in both WCOOP Stud events. The kid who one the WCOOP main event appears to have been blowing some of his money at fairly high stakes online games.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

No, that was the winner of the Stud8/B event not the main event. This game is really goofy bc it seems like so many people play some bad hands and still make a profit out of it, although I think villian's play in this hand is awful.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are a couple players in that game who can play weird hands for what seems to be a profit, but that just looks awful.

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Isn't that weird? I've been noticing it as well. Some of the regulars play in some very unconventional ways and still seem to do fairly decent in the game. Any thoughts on how or why they can pull this off?

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think villian's play in this hand is awful.

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I kind of like the early position complete with this hand in a tight game. He has a good chance to steal the antes, steal the hand later on, or make an open pair of aces or something. He was only a 56-44 dog on 3rd street. Also this kind of play makes it harder for people to read him.

However, he started with this worse hand and it developed badly. He needed to fold or atleast call it down.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
This game is really goofy bc it seems like so many people play some bad hands and still make a profit out of it

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Why do you think this is? Do you think a lot of those guys just play the game for a few months< run good and then go bust? do you think they just have excellent hand reading ability and can put themselves in good positions with marginal hands against people with even worse hands?

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you think they just have excellent hand reading ability and can put themselves in good positions with marginal hands against people with even worse hands?


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We have a winner. The problem is, sometimes it's hard to tell who's flat out awful and who is very good (but unconventional). "Tight as Balls" players don't seem to make up a majority of the game's big winners.

Jeff

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

Mike, I made a post about this, but forgot to actually post it .. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

I read something in mid/high LHE where someone made a post commenting on how he thought the 50/100 on party was fishy cause he watches it and sees some suspect plays. A somewhat knowledgeable poster chimed in saying that it may look fishy on the surface, but because the players know one another fairly well they are trying to make plays at each other, etc.. And that if a straightforward abc player sat down, those players would adjust their style accordingly.

It seems to me though in the game you're mentioning, straightforward solid poker will bring home the bacon as there is no substitute for quality starting hands in 8/B, correct?

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me though in the game you're mentioning, straightforward solid poker will bring home the bacon as there is no substitute for quality starting hands in 8/B, correct?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would think so, but I haven't been finding this out. I think I need more time to further understand whats going on here.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you think they just have excellent hand reading ability and can put themselves in good positions with marginal hands against people with even worse hands?


[/ QUOTE ]

We have a winner. The problem is, sometimes it's hard to tell who's flat out awful and who is very good (but unconventional). "Tight as Balls" players don't seem to make up a majority of the game's big winners.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't think playing really tight will make you a big winner in this game. I think you have to be very creative to be a big winner. I'm sure you'll still be a winner being tight, but probably not so much as some others. The thing that I have really found playing against these guys is that decpetive starting hands go WAAAY up in value. Starting with even a mediocre high hand that appears to be a low hand seems to be very profitable for these guys.

Re: Here\'s a good example
 

In this case, villain's 2nd position raise with (KT)A has a lot of advantages, even if the books say it is not a playable hand. It is similar to raising from early position with a suited connector in holdem (limit, PL, or NL).

Notice that villain is raising with a marginal hand, not calling or limping with one. This is a typical technique of good players in a strong game.

You have a good chance to steal the antes. If that doesn't work, you can represent split aces or a razz hand if the board is right. If you do hit your hand, your opponent is not likely to read it correctly. There is a lot of deception involved in this play.