300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Played some 3-6 for the first time last night and got head kicked in. The game was great though. Anyhow 6 handed and a tilting Mimi Tran open raises from the cutoff. The button folds and I three bet A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB plays well but defintely too loose preflop. He agonizes and calls. She caps, we call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

We check, she bets and we both call.

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

We check, she bets, I call and he calls.

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

We check she bets and I fold.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

I would cr the flop, and call the river.
dave

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

hi

this hand makes no sense to me. please explain.

mike

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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this hand makes no sense to me. please explain.


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Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Bizarre fold on the river. Please explain.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

looks fine to me-- you don't beat anything on the river.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but is a tilting Mimi Tran this clearly defined that he doesn't beat anything here. Is she not raising with worse aces? and betting them when checked to and expecting them to be best and even betting when checked to a decent amount of time with who knows what... The third barrel narrows things down I suppose but I'm still unconvinced a worse Ace couldn't be played like this given the information.

A3,A4,A6,A7,A8,A9..?

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

tilting chick...big pot....
im missing something. please explain. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

edit: nm, i get the c/c'ing. but still confused about the fold.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Seems like you might have to explain some of the intricacies of her tilt for anyone to comment on this. I'm sure she doesn't tilt like the average Joe tilts. Imagine if you said "unknown tilting TAG" instead of "tilting Mimi Tran". The river fold would look crazy.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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Bizarre fold on the river. Please explain.

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She was tilting some yeah, but maybe I should have been more specific about her play. She was calling too many raises and not playing her best, but I dont think players like her go on crazy donkey tilt where they cap A8 offsuit and make mindless plays very often. Maybe I'm wrong, but its hard for me to put her on too many hands I can beat when she fires again on the river. There is also a third guy in the hand who called two cold from the bb who has now called the flop and turn. Niether one of use had been out of line prvious to this, and the board is not draw heavy. I have to think she is expecting to be called in at least one spot when she bets again. I can think of a lot of different ways to play the hand up to the river, but I really didnt have that hard of a time making the river fold.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

did you consider c/ring turn?

I think this hand really depends on what range of hands you think she's raising with.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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did you consider c/ring turn?

I think this hand really depends on what range of hands you think she's raising with.

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Yes. I was waiting to see if somebody brought this up. And FWIW, there is just no way she is capping A7 A8 type hands preflop. I actually dont remember her being out of line too much preflop, I just remember her auto defending her blinds, calling down a little light, and limping behind the fish a bit too much. I think that checking calling the flop and then check raising the turn the to get the BB off AJ AQ might be the best line. BB also hadnt played with me in almost two years, and I was much tight/straighforward back then so he thinks Im a nit.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

if she thinks you both have draws it would give her even more reason to bet out again with a lot of hands you beat.

either way no way I fold this considering the size of the pot, your getting 12:1 on your call.

also if BB had a hand like AJ AQ, I'm sure we would've heard from him by now.

Her range..
 

Absolutely does not include A9 or A8, or anything similar. It was a see too many flops type of tilt, not the maniac I hate money variety. I had also played about one hand in the thirty minutes prior to this due to be horribly card dead, so I kinda doubt she was gonna take a bad ace and try to blow it by a guy she probably think is only playing the nuts, and a good player who called two cold in the BB.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

oh didnt see the adjective tilting

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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if she thinks you both have draws it would give her even more reason to bet out again with a lot of hands you beat.

either way no way I fold this considering the size of the pot, your getting 12:1 on your call.

also if BB had a hand like AJ AQ, I'm sure we would've heard from him by now.

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Of course she has more reason to bet if she thinks we were calling to try to improve and not to showdown, but why would she think we have draws considering the board? I dont think it looks likes either of us have a draw. I also dont really agree that we would have heard from AJ AQ if the BB had either of those hands. I love how you guys think her preflop cap again two solid players means absolutey nothing. In the hour and a half I played with her it was the the only time I saw her cap, and I only remember her three betting a few hands. Why couldnt the BB just be trying to get to the river cheaply with something like AJ?

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

sry misread your post as the board being draw heavy instead of having only the backdoor flush on board.

and to answer the question about BB trying to see showdown cheap with AJ.

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tilting Mimi Tran open raises from the cutoff. The button folds and I three bet A 10 . BB plays well but defintely too loose preflop. He agonizes and calls. She caps, we call.

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Your description of the two players are, one is tilting and could be very frustrated and the other is very loose preflop.

I think very loose preflop will call something like A5s-A9s here and will not agonize about calling AJ-AQ to a CO raise/button 3bet, which could very will be looking like a Button re-steal to a tilting CO.

if you were BB and you had AQ would you not bet or checkraise the flop?

Also I wouldn't be surprised to be shown something like A7-A9s from mimi, possibly even KJs.

I don't think her CO cap means as much as you think it does with the details of your current game that you are providing.

12:1 on the river I'm calling expecting to win this pot enough times to be showing a profit.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

id figure youd say something like that. your thinking/read is not strong enough here to make the river fold given the pot size. you must call. your fold on the river here is very very bad.

this whole thread is ruined. dont waste our time please.
 

"Absolutely does not include A9 or A8, or anything similar."

you need to say that in your initial post. first you say she's on tilt then you say she has a small range of hands she could cap with. as a result now this whole thread is botched, everyone's time is wasted, and the thread should be deleted. no one will learn anything, except hopefully you will learn how to write better initial posts.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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id figure youd say something like that. your thinking/read is not strong enough here to make the river fold given the pot size. you must call. your fold on the river here is very very bad.

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Could be. But I also think I mislead you guys with my descriptions of both players. You know the BB im sure, middle eatern guy, mid 20's, has a twin brother. She also has a normal cap range here. Her "tilt", was more limping behind fish too much, and cold calling in some real marginal spots. Could be its a call on the end, but I think if you were at the table you would think its a lot closer than you do now. Anyhow 12-1 is a lot, I'll give ya that.

Re: this whole thread is ruined. dont waste our time please.
 

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"Absolutely does not include A9 or A8, or anything similar."

you need to say that in your initial post. first you say she's on tilt then you say she has a small range of hands she could cap with. as a result now this whole thread is botched, everyone's time is wasted, and the thread should be deleted. no one will learn anything, except hopefully you will learn how to write better initial posts.

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Thanks, dick. Considering some of the rambling dumbass posts you have put together over the past few years, I would have expected a little more leeway. That said, you are right, its defintely my fault this thread is a mess. Sorry guys.

Re: this whole thread is ruined. dont waste our time please.
 

"Thanks, dick. Considering some of the rambling dumbass posts you have put together over the past few years,"

it's one thing to make a post that's meant to be humorous. it's another to just botch a post and waste people's time.

there are sometimes hands that come up where i think gee this hand was interesting but then i realise that there's no way for me to post it and have it make sense because the fold or raise or whatever that i made was based on a read. so it's either post it tommy style where i explain all my thinking in the opening post or dont post it at all because if i just lay out the bare facts of it ill be wasting people's time. long time posters (like you) should be aware of this. it's why i dont come on here as much and am phasing it out of my life. i feel like im wasting my time too much and not learning anything.

if you had posted a "rambling" post where you described everything going on in your mind during the hand i think that could be really prodcutive for players like me because i want to understand how better players think and learn how to do the same sort of logic at the tables. instead of this sort of insight though im just getting these rancidly played hands by high limit online players that are not fully explained, or posters like JA who give their most thorough analysis in pms rather than on the forum, or just tons of clueless noobs who post one sentence meaningless posts like "i would raise the turn" that are devoid of any thought or nuance. so often i write a post and then just delete it because i realise i am not contributing anything new to the thread or teaching anything or heading towards learning anything, or even (intentionally) making anyone lol. josh, is another guy i love, and i know he is a top player, but the threads he starts are sometimes garbage because the initial post leaves out important detail. ditto andy fox. and someone like gabe who's a close friend normally limits his posts to worthless one word replies. and that's become a pet peeve of mine, i really hate it and i hate the waste of time this fourm has become from posters not carefully thinking through things before we post. it just makes us all think the other guy's a dick.

tommy told me one time that this forum is primarily a writing forum. i wish more of you took that idea to heart.

\vent done/

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

ok see that helps knowing it's that guy in the bb im putting him on AQ for sure and saying fold the turn. those twins are playing 3-6! lol oh someone please give me some money!

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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ok see that helps knowing it's that guy in the bb im putting him on AQ for sure and saying fold the turn. those twins are playing 3-6! lol oh someone please give me some money!

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Yeah wheelchair June put him up. I thought AQ or maybe AJs, and I did think about both folding the turn, and checkraising the turn to try to get him off of it. And yeah, the game was great, he was actually a favorite in that game.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

"he was actually a favorite in that game."

if myy typingh id a litteetle mewessed up in thies rewyply it'sss becuse imase cryinglg scso harda

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

so if river was not K, do you call on the off-chance she has KK?

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

This is a really botched hand. You can't just call along and then fold this river.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

If her range of hands doesn't include A8 or A9, then this hand should be folded on the flop. It's close whether you should three-bet preflop. Maybe Mimi wasn't on tilt. I just don't like this call, call, call approach. Perhaps I would bet the flop--but I'm folding on the tunr, at the very least.

Another point--how close was this session to your biggest loss?

POST OF THE YEAR!
 

~stephen

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

I tied it.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

ok so out of curiosity what did she and bb have?

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

It's not clear to me that Tran was tilting. She was coming in behind bad bad players with marginal hands, so what? Plus she owned you on this hand.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

if its as you say why did you call on the turn. just to hit a ten i guess. or hope she doesnt bet on the end. i guess.
also why did you three bet before the flop.
since you showed great weakness why did you fold on the river. you induced her to bet any weak hands she might have.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Preflop i like.. Flop i like. Turn I raise and fold to a threebet on turn.. and check river.. You could str8 call down too...

Calling flop/turn and folding river is not good.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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if its as you say why did you call on the turn. just to hit a ten i guess. or hope she doesnt bet on the end. i guess.
also why did you three bet before the flop.
since you showed great weakness why did you fold on the river. you induced her to bet any weak hands she might have.

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I guess I'm crazy thinking she wont fire again after I have called twice and a good player who called two cold out the bb overcalled the turn. Anyhow I think you are probably right about the turn. At the time I guess I was thinking she might fire again without an ace and probably take a check on the river, and I didnt want to make a mistake in a big pot before I was sure I was beat. I also didnt have a ton of info on the bb's hand after he just called the flop, but once he called again on the turn I really didnt like it, especailly since I know he thinks at least one of us has a big ace here. I agree I completely butchered the hand up the river, which is why I posted it, but all you guys who are saying the river fold is horrible, yada yada yada, I disgree.

Also, what makes you say I showed "great weakness". Why cant I just be calling down a cap with a marginal hand? Its not like I three bet, she called, and I just check called the flop and turn. IMO that would would be great weakness. Also what are you doing with this hand preflop? Dumping it or just calling if you dont like three betting? Thanks for the reply, always like getting your insight.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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Preflop i like.. Flop i like. Turn I raise and fold to a threebet on turn.. and check river.. You could str8 call down too...

Calling flop/turn and folding river is not good.

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I like that line. Basically the reason I posted the hand was to see if people liked checkraising the turn and folding to a three bet or check raising the flop. I wasnt going to check raise flop, bet the turn and fold to a raise, because I could see either one of them raising me with a worse hand and checking the river.

FWIW, I had planned on just calling down, but when I got there, after the BB had come along for the turn, knowing what hands he can call with preflop, and what he thinks of me, it didnt seem like a tough decision. Also like I've said a bunch of times smaller aces were IMO not in her cap range, and I think she fully expected to get called on the river after we both called a pretty drawless board on the turn. Obviously if it were HU on the river, I would have called. But not only do I not think she is going to try to blow it past both of us on the river, I think the BB has me beat a good majority of the time anyway.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

Preflop is close between 3 betting and calling. I haven't played with Mimi, and don't know if she tilts or not. However, I'm hesitant to build big pots out of position with good players who play high and know that you don't. I don't think your hand is that good preflop. Put it this way - to her, you are some nobody young kid, probably playing on a short bankroll. Again, I'm just trying to think about what she is thinking about, I'm not making any comment about you, as I haven't played with you either, and know nothing about your situation. She's going to test you at all times. I am almost positive that this is the case here. I think you have to call on the river since you got there.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

HiSteve,

"what makes you say I showed 'great weakness'."

Postflop, you check and call, check and call, check. She wouldn't put you on A-K, A-Q, or A-J. Wouldn't she then be likely to value bet her A-x on the river?

Andy

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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Preflop is close between 3 betting and calling. I haven't played with Mimi, and don't know if she tilts or not. However, I'm hesitant to build big pots out of position with good players who play high and know that you don't. I don't think your hand is that good preflop. Put it this way - to her, you are some nobody young kid, probably playing on a short bankroll. Again, I'm just trying to think about what she is thinking about, I'm not making any comment about you, as I haven't played with you either, and know nothing about your situation. She's going to test you at all times. I am almost positive that this is the case here. I think you have to call on the river since you got there.

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Seems like a pretty well thought out response. I do think the player in BB changes the hand quite a bit, but I guess its possible she could be pushing something here.

Re: 300-600 hand VS Mimi Tran
 

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HiSteve,

"what makes you say I showed 'great weakness'."

Postflop, you check and call, check and call, check. She wouldn't put you on A-K, A-Q, or A-J. Wouldn't she then be likely to value bet her A-x on the river?

Andy

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Thats assuming she also puts the BB on nothing, and that worse aces are in her range, which I didnt think they were. Anyhow getting 12-1 I guess its a lot closer that I thought at the time. I do disagree with those who seem to think its a no brainer.