A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Hi folks,

This is sort of random. I made a play today playing 3/6 6max today that reminded me of a hand I had played (and posted about) playing 10/20 in NYC this summer. Both situations were very similar, and in both cases I found the same pleasing result. I thought I'd share it with y'all so you might be on the lookout for this type of situation in your play.

The basic idea is this:

You raise in early position with a big A-high hand (AK, AQ, AJ), and get cold-called by two or more opponents.

The flop comes something like: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (The key is that the flop is low and contains two to a flush).

You bet the flop, get one or more callers, and the villain in the last position raises. Everyone calls.

Turn is a blank, say the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Everyone checks to the last position player and he checks behind.

River is another blank, not completing the flush draw, let's say the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

You should check, with the intent of check-raising a bet from the last position villain.

It's pretty cool, and it's the kind of play that'll make you feel pretty badass. And that's good for the poker psyche.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I like it.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I'd prefer it from the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd prefer it from the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The entire point is that it is not the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd prefer it from the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The entire point is that it is not the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh I see it now.

Yeah I dig.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Yup. A very good example of a time when you don't want overcalls.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd prefer it from the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

um... i think the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gives vilain a flush

i like it by the way against the right opponent and once every 3 months

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

An interesting play indeed. It is nice when players define their hands for you so you can exploit them when they try to bluff [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Interesting idea - Main worry would be some fish in 2/4 might call 2 cold with A9 in this spot while there will be some cases Villain has something like 45 suited and a harmless looking 6 on the river could end in disaster.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd prefer it from the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

um... i think the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gives vilain a flush

i like it by the way against the right opponent and once every 3 months

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the river would be a misdeal since a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] already appeared on the flop.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting idea - Main worry would be some fish in 2/4 might call 2 cold with A9 in this spot while there will be some cases Villain has something like 45 suited and a harmless looking 6 on the river could end in disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously this play is high variance, but the pot has gotten big enough that this I think this is worth doing against the right opponent. It's pretty dangerous if some of the intermediate players are fish and might call a few cold. This works particularly well on board which are paired and full of low cards. It is also important to be sure that the last position villain sort of knows what he's doing and: 1) is actually making a free card play and not just making a pussed-out check on the turn; 2) has decent enough starting requirements that he is unlikely to have made a shitty pair on the river.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Sweet play. I did this once three handed at a 2/4 game and everyone told me it was a terrible play. Maybe if I was as cool as derranged people would like when I do it. The play works, naturally, much better when a thinking player is the last to act and is very capable of folding to 1 bet.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Hmmm...interesting play. I'm not sure what hand you are bluffing though? If the guy is on a busted flush draw, a call works too. I think you get two folds by weaker hands, or a call by a hand that beats you (what hand will either player lay down...if they are typical players who can't lay down any kind of hand...one of them will call, putting you on AK like many do). Looks like a -EV play to me.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

The idea is that the last position opponent is very likely to be on a busted draw. You cannot just call though, and allow opponents behind you to make weak crying overcalls with bad pairs. So you raise to ensure that all you have to do is beat the last position bluffer.

Both times I've tried this play the last position player has folded. The thing is, you're not really bluffing him; you are raising because you have him beat a majority of the time and need to bluff all other possible callers.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

W: is it relevant that the river card pairs the board?

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

"You bet the flop, get one or more callers, and the villain in the last position raises. Everyone calls."

I made the assumption there were two other players in the hand. However, with more players, the greater the liklihood you get at least one call. It all depends on the opponents...most will call with any pair...since so many players put a preflop raiser on AK (especially when the preflop raiser just calls a flop raise and checks the turn...you would three bet the flop with an overpair to try to knock out everyone...or perhaps call and bet safe turn card). I think over the long haul...that play will lose money (i.e. everyone folds weaker hands or call with better hands). So...good idea to only do it once every three months.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I have done that exactly once and it worked perfectly. Folded another AK and the missed flush. never really had the opportunity to try it again.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

Very interesting. I'll post the hand after I have the opportunity to try this play.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
W: is it relevant that the river card pairs the board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, but I think it helps. Both times I've done this the board was paired.

The reason it helps is that some opponents might think that your check-raise means you have trips or a full house. The other very nice feature of the board pairing is that it means there are fewer cards that your opponents could have that make pairs.

I disagree with one earlier comment that suggests that all opponents will call with all pairs here. Maybe at the very, very lowest levels, but once you reach like 3/6 online or 10/20 live (or even a bit lower), most players are clued in enough to not always call the river with anything, particularly when you make it two bets. The nice thing is, they won't realize that you river raise is almost totally implausible.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I try this play about 2-3 times per session at 2/4... Is this a leak? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I read this thread shortly before hopping into my first 5/10 game ever. A tiny pot, but thank you very much. That is all!


5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ac 9d (three of a kind, fives).
CO has Ks 6h (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.20 BB. </font>

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
I read this thread shortly before hopping into my first 5/10 game ever. A tiny pot, but thank you very much. That is all!


5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ac 9d (three of a kind, fives).
CO has Ks 6h (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.20 BB. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
dont show results you are an old hand you should know. idiot

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

I do this frequently against people who bluff way too much, as long as he is on your right, with no one in between. And don't do it to the same person more than once every few hundred hands, or they will wise up. This situation arises a lot in micro games where people tend to check the turn and river through, even in a multiway pot.

You're right -- I do feel badass when it works. Playing the players rules. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
I read this thread shortly before hopping into my first 5/10 game ever. A tiny pot, but thank you very much. That is all!


5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ac 9d (three of a kind, fives).
CO has Ks 6h (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.20 BB. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the turn.

Re: A Once-Every-Three-Months Play to Add to Your Arsenal
 

[ QUOTE ]
most will call with any pair...since so many players put a preflop raiser on AK

[/ QUOTE ]

Any player calling two in this situation with a low pair would probably have bet after LP's turn check and the pfr's river check. So once it's checked to the LP bluffer, the raise is the preferred move to prevent overcalls.