AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

The donator just left the table and Erik1234 took his seat, obviously this is my last orbit at the table. For those that don't know, Erik is a force to be reckoned with and Lois isn't that great, but not that bad either(she is 36/24/1.8 filtered for 5.4 players).

Erik opens UTG, LoisLane 3bets UTG+1 and i cap A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] right behind them. Three of us see a 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop for many small bets. Erik checks, Lois checks, i bet, Erik c/r's, Lois 3bets, i cap and they both call. Turn is where it gets interesting. A 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] comes and they both check again. I valuebet and now Eric c/r's, Lois folds.

Normally this is an easy calldown and a 3bet would be spewing, but i'm not sure if 3betting is out of the question because of Eric's turn play. Whats his hand range here? AA/KK/QQ/99/XcXc? If i am behind to a flush or full then why would Erik c/r here and force Lois out? He'd be passing up on getting value out of Lois here.

I just called, but am wondering if an argument can be made for 3betting. I asked stox and at first glance he said a 3bet is spewing, but at second glance maybe not.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I think when you cap the flop, he does not c/r the turn very often without a hand that beats yours, and you definitly don't want to expose yourself to a cap here. I like a call down.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I think a three-bet is good. He could VERY easily have KK(club or not) or even QQ. I think it's unlikely enough that you are behind here, Erik is very very aggro.
-James

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

Ok well James made 160k last month, i have changed my stance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

Is there any way Erik would fold QQ or KK with no club to your turn 3 bet?

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

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Ok well James made 160k last month, i have changed my stance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well I switched to Nl for a while because I was in a big downswing in limit, so who knows [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] This game does play insanely aggro though. Hero's cap could mean TT from time to time. Seriously.
-James

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

"yeah so i decided to dick around with NL a little and accidently won a small condo somewhere"

FU. Seriously though James, the interview was very cool, i got a lot out of it. Interesting that this game is THAT aggro where TT/JJ ever cap the flop after this action.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I'm also thinking that calling the turn and raising the non club river might not be a bad line either.
-James

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

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I'm also thinking that calling the turn and raising the non club river might not be a bad line either.
-James

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Do you fold if he 3 bets the river?

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I like the 3-bet if that is the last money you put in the pot! And I like it much better than calling down. BTW Erik's hand ranges is wider here than you suggest.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I think a call down is best because it looks like your behind. You've capped p/f and flop. Your telling him you have Aces, he don't care, he knows your not folding that big of a pot. Call it down.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

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I think a call down is best because it looks like your behind. You've capped the flop/turn. Your telling him you have Aces, he don't care, he knows your not folding that big of a pot. Call it down.

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Looks like you made an argument for folding!

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

too big of pot and too agro of a player to lay it down, but, I do think more often than not he's behind here.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

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I just called, but am wondering if an argument can be made for 3betting

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Here's one:

He would likely feel obligated to try to knock Lois off a club with QQ or KK especially without a club himself and once she's gone he may just check-call the river.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I just called, but am wondering if an argument can be made for 3betting

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Here's one:

He would likely feel obligated to try to knock Lois off a club with QQ or KK especially without a club himself and once she's gone he may just check-call the river.

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Exactly. Pretending like AA is the only hand that a tough opponent will read hero for is ridiculous. Not that a 3 bet is necessarily right, but this isn't .5/1 where nobody caps a street without aces.
-James

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

doesn't TT JJ always cap here?

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just called, but am wondering if an argument can be made for 3betting

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one:

He would likely feel obligated to try to knock Lois off a club with QQ or KK especially without a club himself and once she's gone he may just check-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Pretending like AA is the only hand that a tough opponent will read hero for is ridiculous. Not that a 3 bet is necessarily right, but this isn't .5/1 where nobody caps a street without aces.
-James

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Absolutely right, Erik's view of my hand range incudes TT+ here. Now i'm wondering if its better to 3bet right then and there or wait to raise a non-club river. The advantage of 3betting now is that i don't have to wait for a safe river card to drop, but disadvantage is maybe he folds JJ-KK(with no club) to the 3bet.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

This is a great hand. I am positive that I would simply call down here, but am struggling to defend it.

Even if you are good here more than 50% of the time, that does not make a 3 bet correct, the exact equity you need to have here depends on how likely Erik is to cap a hand that beats you OR fold a hand you beat. The made flush/1 card flush draw also complicates matters, becuase if you are ahead, your equity is not as huge as it could be on a non-flush board some of time anyways.

The fact that Erik is more likely than most to make the correct decision here makes me still like calling down.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

good post stox, but it seems to me like erik only folds a non club here, thus leaving him to cap the rest of range. big clubbed pairs in combination are outweighed by the remainer of the combinations, no? so he is likely to cap/call more of then than not. conceivably - and this is in theory only, no reason to call a club river?

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

I feel like Stox here. I'm sure I would always call down, but it is starting to feel like that is wrong.

Re: AA vs LoisLane and Erik1234
 

Even though the people who know better think it's wrong, after capping the first 2 streets i dont see merit to 3 betting here. Eric's c/r should not be to shut out Lois, since there is no way she is folding hands that have a decent number of outs. He's opening himself to being 3 bet again, none of it makes sense with him having a worse hand enough to merit popping this again.