Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

One or two limpers in late position, you hold A4 or something like that, do you complete in SB?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

6-max or full?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I play full, so I say full. But since the limper/limpers came from late position doesn't that make it almost the same?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Also, do you make steals with weak aces from the CO or button when it's folded to you, and if you do, what other hands do you steal with? If the blinds are tight, do you steal with any two?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, do you make steals with weak aces from the CO or button when it's folded to you, and if you do, what other hands do you steal with? If the blinds are tight, do you steal with any two?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hold a weak ace in the CO or Button and it folds to you, you aren't really stealing if you raise. You are betting on having the best hand remaining.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
One or two limpers in late position, you hold A4 or something like that, do you complete in SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends. If the limpers are tight and will fold to a raise, I raise. If they're loose passive and not going anywhere I fold. I would never just complete with a weak off suit ace. A weak suited ace would be easy though.

As far as folded to me in CO or button, again it depends on the blinds. If they're tight, I'll raise. Loose, I fold.

This all assumes your opponent play pretty straight forward. If they get tricky with you then I just muck it. Also, it depends on how well your continuation bets have been working because that's what you're going to be doing a lot.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

in small blind, in an unraised pot.. your considering folding an Axs????

i dont think it matters if your 6max or not..
maybe i play too looose in my blinds, bc i would never consider folding half a bet with those cards

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
in small blind, in an unraised pot.. your considering folding an Axs????

i dont think it matters if your 6max or not..
maybe i play too looose in my blinds, bc i would never consider folding half a bet with those cards

[/ QUOTE ]

First in from co or button, I raise with Ax at full ring. sb, unraised, I complete. but, if as is often the case, it is an unraised family pot, I plan to fold unless the flop hits me hard--2 pair-ish, for example. in a family pot, assume there is a bigger ace out until evidence says otherwise.

fwiw

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
One or two limpers in late position, you hold A4 or something like that, do you complete in SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

In full ring, no.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

No I don't. A4o is so garbage, especially to play far oop.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Occasionally I would raise with this trash, all depending on image/table type etc etc. But generally, yes, I complete. My plan if the Ace flops:
if someone bets before me, I probably fold.
if checked to me, i check behind. On the turn, someone will probably make a small bet with his 2nd or 3rd pair, and I will just call it down and make him feel stupid when i show my trashy ace and take the pot.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I'm looking to chop.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Occasionally I would raise with this trash, all depending on image/table type etc etc. But generally, yes, I complete. My plan if the Ace flops:
if someone bets before me, I probably fold.
if checked to me, i check behind. On the turn, someone will probably make a small bet with his 2nd or 3rd pair, and I will just call it down and make him feel stupid when i show my trashy ace and take the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must play with you.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No I don't. A4o is so garbage, especially to play far oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I aggree with this but I also feel too tight and kinda stupid folding what most likely is the best hand for half a bet.

What hands would you complete or consider completing with in the SB under the same conditions?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

No

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I complete with same hands I would limp with in CO or on the button, and some of the hands I woulda raised from these positions.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I don't see much wrong with completing here. You're getting 3,5,7:1 on your money, and you're not likely to be that much of an underdog ever. If you hit two pair or an OESD, you're good; otherwise, let it go -- Of course, that's the trick. You can't start talking yourself into continuing when the flop comes 3-4-6 or A-7-2, or chasing the straight with a flush staring you in the face.

I say call it 65% of the time, as long as you have the stack for it.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I do not complete in either full ring or 6max.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

On the other hand, I trust their play a lot more than I trust mine (wtfsvi and amoeba), so it's probably a hole in my game. I also mostly only play tournaments.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

i [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] completing my sb

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
in small blind, in an unraised pot.. your considering folding an Axs????

i dont think it matters if your 6max or not..
maybe i play too looose in my blinds, bc i would never consider folding half a bet with those cards

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf are you trying to hit with your shitty ace? you're OOP and won't feel comfortable if you flop an ace. If you pair your kicker it's going to be low and you either will win nothing or will lose a big pot.

if you say that you're looking to hit 2pr or trips, why not just complete with everything? Ax doesn't hit 2pr more often than any other hand.

you're not trying to win pots, you're trying to win money. Crappy unsuited aces will not win you much money.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Well the Aces-up two pair are a lot better implied odds than others, and often enough people don't believe the bicycle when they see it. If I'm getting 2.5 times as good odds than any of the limpers, how can that not be worth it?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

I don't think there is enough information for a yes or no answer here. My answer is "sometimes". It really depends on the limpers. If the limpers are passive preflop, but aggressive post-flop (I see a lot of these in the Full-Tilt 200's), then I just let it go, because I don't want to mix it up OOP with trash against somebody capable of making big moves on me. If they're weak-tight nits, I might complete or I might raise it up preflop. If they're tight and predictable rocks then I like completing and moving them off of their hands on favorable looking flops. If it's a combination of different types of players, pick your poison.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see much wrong with completing here. You're getting 3,5,7:1 on your money, and you're not likely to be that much of an underdog ever. If you hit two pair or an OESD, you're good; otherwise, let it go -- Of course, that's the trick. You can't start talking yourself into continuing when the flop comes 3-4-6 or A-7-2, or chasing the straight with a flush staring you in the face.

I say call it 65% of the time, as long as you have the stack for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you going to hit an OESD w/ Ax UNLESS the flop comes something like 3-4-6? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] going for OESD w/ Ax.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

This type of thread always freaks me out. First you get a couple of replies that are so short and direct it seems like they are stating the obvious. Then a couple of 'respected' posters oppose the ideas so far presented. Then there is some humming and hawing by others unsure of why thats the case. Then another 'respected' poster takes the original point of view.

I'm confused as hell again.

Personally, my feeling is fold it. A 4 way, OOP pot with a weak ace sounds like hell to me. Unless I'm in the mood to flop trips that is! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Yikes, sorry that was poorly put forth. I think I edited that line a bit too much...

Hitting two more to your straight draw = Good
Hitting your card and a back-door straight draw = Bad

But yes, what I was saying is 3-4-6 is bad, where as 3-5-6 is good.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

this is just a function of how often you expect to flop 2 pair + and how much you expect to get paid off when you do.

the advantage is that if you hit 2 pair, you will likely get a bit more action and your 2 pair is tougher to counterfeit.

I just don't think I hit it often enough to make my preflop limp worth it but certainly with respect to number of limpers this could potentially be different.

Its just that the majority of the time I fold AXo from the sb.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not complete in either full ring or 6max.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you stealraise with it more than just two random cards? And if you do, why is it a better stealing hand, than it is to complete?

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Two pair, trips, dubious board flushes, low straights. These are all viable hands you can hit with Axo. Two pairs and low straights can be devestating. No way I'm folding for half a bet. Yes if you're gonna get tied to any Ace fold but you don't need to.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

if you are going to steal with it, you might as well steal with any 2 random cards.

although the advantage over any 2 random is that lets say you steal with it, you get called.

flop comes with a flush draw. you bet, he calls. somehow you get to the river and the flush doesn't complete and he was on flush draw, with any 2, there are lots of hands that are beaten even by the missed flush draw but at least with the A you have some showdown value.

thats the only advantage I can think of for Ax over any 2.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

If you are stealing your cards dont really matter.

Re: Completing with weak offsuit aces?
 

Yeah.. thats sorta what I have been thinking too.. you have some showdown value. Even if you make a continuation bet, you can still win the pot by checking behind on turn and river.

How about checking behind if an ace flops and then try to get in a bet on the turn or riveR?

Or if you have made lots of continuation bets, make it full pot on the flop and maybe extract some value?