Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

I am not very familiar with villian, he is ok, very aggressive, typical 100/200 player IMO.

Party Poker 100/200 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

I like it. I think he will call you with Ace high a high enough percentage of the time here to make it profitable.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

The fact that you are considering A-high hands as a significant portion of his range on the river makes me believe you did not expect him to fold A-high to the turn raise. Or to a river continuation bluff.

So why raise?

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

i would just call the turn. id hate to see myself paying 3 bets for my flush draw.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you are considering A-high hands as a significant portion of his range on the river makes me believe you did not expect him to fold A-high to the turn raise. Or to a river continuation bluff.

So why raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This assumption is garnered from information we got from raising, if he had 3 bet i would think he had ace high very often [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

i like calling the turn and seeing showdown with ace high even if I miss just to get familiar with villian if your not already familiar, and to also show him I'll call him down with ace high periodically.

But with the line you took here, I don't think he will call enough times with hands you beat that make this a good value bet.

Basically you only beat Ace high and nothing else.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

a typical 100/200 SH player will never fold ace high here.

I like the turn raise because you were going to call a river bet on a blank anyway, and this way instead of getting 2 bets in in all circumstances, you get 3 in when you're fairly confident your hand is good.

You're probably ahead of his range preflop, but never by much since A3 dominates or is a significant favourite over exactly nothing, so I'm not sure whether reraising pf is good or not here.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

Yeah, i feel that it might have been overlooked that villian was the SB here and thus has a huge range. By raising the turn, i get more value against any paint cards with a heart in the there somewhere, as i get a free showdown if i want it a lot and they wouldnt put more money in on the river anyway.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

A3o only has 55% equity preflop v. a totally random hand. I am not sure he has an equity edge here. Raising might be good for other reason though.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you are considering A-high hands as a significant portion of his range on the river makes me believe you did not expect him to fold A-high to the turn raise. Or to a river continuation bluff.

So why raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This assumption is garnered from information we got from raising, if he had 3 bet i would think he had ace high very often [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But what I'm saying is that if your turn raise will only fold worse hands, and since you must call a 3-bet...why raise?

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

He is the SB here, his hand range is very wide, and he must call my raise with any heart, and some of his hands that must call the turn would put in no more money on the river if they miss.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A3o only has 55% equity preflop v. a totally random hand. I am not sure he has an equity edge here. Raising might be good for other reason though.

[/ QUOTE ]

When a middle pair flops A high has significantly more equity than that.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

I would say it is both a value bet and a bluff...but what do i know?

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

partygirl was arguing against pog's thoughts that a preflop reraise would be good, which it of course isnt. he wasnt arguing over whether raising postflop was appropriate or not.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would say it is both a value bet and a bluff...but what do i know?

[/ QUOTE ]

No better hand folds, for sure. That said, I don't see a lot of value in a river bet.
-James

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you are considering A-high hands as a significant portion of his range on the river makes me believe you did not expect him to fold A-high to the turn raise. Or to a river continuation bluff.

So why raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This assumption is garnered from information we got from raising, if he had 3 bet i would think he had ace high very often [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

wait, are u saying u put him on A-high if he 3bets u on the turn rather than just calls? Or did u meant to say wounldnt*?

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

there could be a lot of hands that he would want to call the turn with, but much fewer hands that he would call the river with.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

sometimes i raise the flop here.

other times i raise the turn.

yet other times i just call it down and let the villian hang himself...im happy to supply the rope.

turn raise is good though against most but not all people...the fact you cannot fold to the 3 bet makes it a bit worse, but the equity you have makes it a bit better...betting and raising with outs with one card to come has been disected to great length. here is a spot where i think its ok.

river is a check. i dont care if Ax called you here. you fold 0 better hands and if you are called you win far less than 50% fo the time.

Barron

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]

river is a check. i dont care if Ax called you here. you fold 0 better hands and if you are called you win far less than 50% fo the time.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm shocked so few people have mentioned this. Betting seems very bad.

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

i normally just call down here.

are you really able to fold enough better hands often enough?

Re: Eurobet 100/200 river value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say it is both a value bet and a bluff...but what do i know?

[/ QUOTE ]

No better hand folds, for sure. That said, I don't see a lot of value in a river bet.
-James

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I was thinking more on the line of 44 or something. If it is a value bet, then it has to be a value bet only against hands like AK, AQ, etc. I don't know that a pocket underpair would make it through the turn raise and fold the river, but I suppose it is possible. The thought was just an occurence, but, like you, I don't know where the value is unless it's AxKh or AxQh. Does this represent a substantial amount of his holdings here?

Results
 

I bet the river and he called me with AxJh, and MHIG. In retrospect, i like the turn raise a lot, especially because it gets me a free showdown against several hands that beat me. Now that i've said that, i guess the river is a pretty clear check [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]