There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

Loyalty rewards program which will tale the place of rakeback.

Don't hold your breath.

Why would Party offer an internal system sort of like rakeback when they don't want it in the 1st place.

If they did that not only would they be giving the multi-tabling high volume players "rakeback" but they would also be giving it the other 100,000 players plus they have on their network.

Keep dreaming

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

I have no idea what their plan is, but it seems like it could work for all parties concerned if it was some kind of tiered rewards program. In other words, the more hands you play, the higher % you get rewarded.

The casual fish who only plays a few hundred hands a month would get a small percentage, and it would increase for those who play thousands of hands per month, capped at a certain fixed percentage.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

Why would Party offer an internal system sort of like rakeback when they don't want it in the 1st place.

They want to offer player rewards to stay competitive/maintain their edge over other sites. Party is aware that without rakeback, many high volume players would play at Stars instead. The reasons for this are obvious.

The do not want traditional rakeback because affiliates undercut each other. As a result, players are canceling/reopening accounts and switching back and forth between affiliates. This is problematic for both rakeback and non-rakeback affiliates, which in turn is a problem for Party.

By offering a direct rewards system, they prevent the undercutting and player swapping from happening.

Cup

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

That makes sense. Seems to hurt affiliates the most.

What about the reduced incentive for affiliates to find new players for Party? Or do they feel the player base is already saturated?

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is problematic for both rakeback and non-rakeback affiliates, which in turn is a problem for Party.


[/ QUOTE ]

How is this a problem for Party? The only one that it is a problem for is the affilates. It's the cost of doing business either be competitiive or lose the customer.

Party's official line is it does not offer rakeback hence there is no Problem for Party.

Party may have a couple of duplicate accounts or there may be some gnome accounts out there because of rakeback but this is not a problem for Party.

All it is is a couple extra names in a database

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is this a problem for Party? The only one that it is a problem for is the affilates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party has to deal with the fraudulent duplicate accounts and the outrage from the nonrakeback affiliates (who do bring in a lot of fish). Party does not want to alienate their nonrakeback affiliates, as much as we might despise them.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

And I'm sure you can all think of SOME PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT TYPE LIKE THIS who will hit party for multiple reloads each month using gnome accounts, surely this is bad for party ...

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is this a problem for Party? The only one that it is a problem for is the affilates. It's the cost of doing business either be competitiive or lose the customer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Affiliate A has a banner on "Soccerisdabezt.com" and gets lots of soccer fans to play poker. He doesn't pay rakeback.

Affilate B has a banner on "Pokahisdabezt.com" and has a base of poker playerz. He gives 15% rakeback.

Soccer fanz who got into poker discover Affiliate B and move to him. Affiliate A makes no more money for his work.

Affiliate C offers 275.39% even when he's not allowed to, and also spams the tables. The soccer fanz move to Affiliate C, and also complain about affiliate B ripping them off.

Affiliate A goes bust, and decides that banners with naked women make him more money. Affiliate B gets angry and writes to Party saying that Affiliate C is scum.

Party get two complaints, lose the affiliate who brings in customers, and probably pays out more money because Affiliate C is high turnover.

Lori

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

Party has already initiated the program you said they won't.

Look for the posts regarding pop ups when you first log in.

They tell you if you play so many hands you will get x amount. Basically it is a rakeback in bonus form, albeit less than the 25%.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

If your talking about the points sytem, that started a week w ago and it's a limited time offer

Thats not a rake back program and it's not even close

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

you said:
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what their plan is, but it seems like it could work for all parties concerned if it was some kind of tiered rewards program. In other words, the more hands you play, the higher % you get rewarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I previously posted:

The whole thing works out much better if you make it an auto rakeback program exclusively for high volume players, with tiers according to rake generated. Obviously, you could continue to give an affiliate 3-6% of the players rake, (that's something like what they make now I guess) and in turn the affiliate could be expected to perform the same function they have, as advocates/ CS for a group of players.

A. There aren't many month in month out high volume players who are ignorant of rake.

B. You can still charge the base rake to the majority of your customer base.

C. Affiliates who expect to get 20%+ are obviously hurting the pro and semi-pro player base. Party really needs us more than the affilliates, because without the regulars, games break and revenue drops.

All this cloak and dagger, open an account under my girlfriend's dog's name, secret password BS, has really run its course. I'm tired of poor customer service and inconsistent policies. At least PS is consistent in their policy: lower rake, better player points, friendly service, no RB.

Unless party comes up with a solution that does not involve me begging and/or me sitting on my hands and not playing poker there for 60 days, I'm leaving. There are many sites that are happy to have my business and as many of us pay more rake than we do rent I feel we are entitled to a little god damn consideration here. Money isn't everything, and I'm willing to face slightly tougher competition to promote a better business model.

to which you responded:

Quote:
Party really needs us more than the affilliates, because without the regulars, games break and revenue drops.

Sincityguy: This is one of the most unintentionally humorous statements I've read in quite a while.



So, I guess that parts of my post are stupid doesn't stop you from stealing my thesis?

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

Where do you get the impression they do not plan on doing this every month?

Personally I think it is way too low to begin with, but Party is clearly willing to pay you x amount based on the number of hands you play.

That is rakeback. How can you say not even close? If you mean the percentages and how they calculate the amount, agreed, but in theory, it is the same.

I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...

I assume they will only offer it to high volume players, knowing that most of them are aware of rakeback anyway.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

The part of your other post that I responded to had nothing to do with the area that you now show in bold text (which, by the way, I happen to agree with).

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...

[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing, it would make everyone feel good, even the players who don't know anything about rakeback at this point. If nothing else, Party would benefit from this being spread by word of mouth. Second, they could structure it in a way that the low volume players get a negligible percentage, but something nonetheless. The high volume players would get a higher percentage. Third, and most importantly, once they notice, a lot of players would have the incentive to start playing more hands because of this, which would generate more rake for Party.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
For one thing, it would make everyone feel good.

[/ QUOTE ]

How cute.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that, people play 10 tables and 90 000 hands a month for the rakeback. This is a win win situation for the player and the room. Take away the rakeback and many players will go up in limit and play two tables. The players variance will increase, but his work will be less stressfull.

I will probably play at party, but they will lose income.

I don't understand why everyone assumes that players will play as many hands without rakeback. We all do what is in our own interest. I don't think there's any loyalty in this industry.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing, it would make everyone feel good.

[/ QUOTE ]

How cute.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it was poorly worded on my part, but I followed it up with the tangible benefit of the recreational players spreading the word to their friends.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is this a problem for Party? The only one that it is a problem for is the affilates. It's the cost of doing business either be competitiive or lose the customer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Affiliate A has a banner on "Soccerisdabezt.com" and gets lots of soccer fans to play poker. He doesn't pay rakeback.

Affilate B has a banner on "Pokahisdabezt.com" and has a base of poker playerz. He gives 15% rakeback.

Soccer fanz who got into poker discover Affiliate B and move to him. Affiliate A makes no more money for his work.

Affiliate C offers 275.39% even when he's not allowed to, and also spams the tables. The soccer fanz move to Affiliate C, and also complain about affiliate B ripping them off.

Affiliate A goes bust, and decides that banners with naked women make him more money. Affiliate B gets angry and writes to Party saying that Affiliate C is scum.

Party get two complaints, lose the affiliate who brings in customers, and probably pays out more money because Affiliate C is high turnover.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest problem Party has regarding this whole rakeback situation is that they pay the affiliate for as long as the player continues playing at Party. This creates a potetially HUGE profit for affiliates who sign up less-knowledgeable players, and provides a HUGE incentive for those affiliates to not only fight to keep their uninformed players, but also to steal new players from other affiliates by undercutting.

A solution: affiliates are only paid a set dollar amount or are only paid for a certain length of time per account (say 3 or 6 months). Now, this could potentially cause an enormous problem, if players are able to profitably switch back and forth between affiliates. However, Party can prevent this by implementing direct rakeback to the player after the inital waiting period is up (3 months, 6 months, etc). Also, by increasing the amount available to the player, it prevents players from constantly switching affiliates; since they can make more by getting the rakeback directly from Party, they're only costing themselves money by switching.

This also helps Party, because affiiates are only getting paid when they sign up new players.

(Note: this is somewhat similar to TruePoker, where affiliates are only paid for the first year a player plays there; however, since after this year is up neither the player nor the affiliate continues to get paid, it proves profitable for them both if they are able to fraudulently sign the player back up again under a new account.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
For one thing, it would make everyone feel good, even the players who don't know anything about rakeback at this point. If nothing else, Party would benefit from this being spread by word of mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Come to party poker, where we will give you money to play."

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...

[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing, it would make everyone feel good, even the players who don't know anything about rakeback at this point. If nothing else, Party would benefit from this being spread by word of mouth. Second, they could structure it in a way that the low volume players get a negligible percentage, but something nonetheless. The high volume players would get a higher percentage. Third, and most importantly, once they notice, a lot of players would have the incentive to start playing more hands because of this, which would generate more rake for Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crikey, this is what I suggested that PokerStars do about 3 months ago.

If party does it and succeeds, someone should hire me as an analyst.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...

[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing, it would make everyone feel good, even the players who don't know anything about rakeback at this point. If nothing else, Party would benefit from this being spread by word of mouth. Second, they could structure it in a way that the low volume players get a negligible percentage, but something nonetheless. The high volume players would get a higher percentage. Third, and most importantly, once they notice, a lot of players would have the incentive to start playing more hands because of this, which would generate more rake for Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crikey, this is what I suggested that PokerStars do about 3 months ago.

If party does it and succeeds, someone should hire me as an analyst.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is GENIUS. It seems so easy but they should do it!! They have market share of the online poker community right now. They have 40-50K people on there site at any given time and another (at last report) about 750k (active/inactive) accounts. A mass e-mail promotion might bring out some of the inactive accounts and bring ALL of the players from the other skins back to Party. Party wins and makes ALL THE MONEY. Party would be making a huge mistake to not be presenting this option tomorrow as their answer to rakeback.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

doesn't work

u need to segment ur market into people who will pay full price and those who will only pay a discounted rake and get the business of both

if u do across-the-board rakeback, then they give more rakeback total, cause everyone gets that discount...better to get full price from the 70k fish and the discounted price from the high volume 'pros'

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
if u do across-the-board rakeback, then they give more rakeback total,

[/ QUOTE ]

True but if by doing this you generate a larger player base and more play it could lead to more revenue than not doing it.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

Any sort of 'loyalty reward program' offered by PP would probably be very weak like their points program. I'm not holding my breath for this until I get the final word. I don't have much faith in party that they'll offer anything close to a 25% rakeback deal.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

fish don't know or care about rake or rakeback, or they'd not be on party right now...they'd be on other sites with lower rake or skins with rakeback...

the people who care about rakeback find it (the price sensitive folks) and those who don't go without it...so party gets full price for them

examples:

a) some golf ball makers sell 'faulty balls' with an X marked on them...they sell for lower price than the exact same ball without the magic marker X on it...that's the only difference in the balls...the people who are willing to pay full price pay full price and those looking for bargains pay the lower price for the same ball

b) electronics makers sell 'refurbished' goods...they aren't always refurbished, but just sold that way because price sensitive people won't buy the product for full price but will for the lower price...

c) celeron processors are sold for lower price to those who are sensitive to price...those who aren't buy the faster pentiums

d) if u haggle for a car u pay less...if u don't, u pay more

e) coupons in the sunday paper

there are 1000s of examples...it's simple economics

They have implemented it!
 

I got an email offering this from party today. Basically the same deal as the original pop-up.... BUT the terms in the email are much more favorable.

I only need to play approx 40% of the hands per the email than I do per the popup. Whereas the amount paid was only 25% less.

Example: (making up #'s but using same ratio. ONLY the ratio comparing the popup and the email are accurate. I'm not getting $3 for every 40 hands)

Popup says I play 100 hands and get $4.
Email says I play 40 hands and get $3.

Furthermore, the email states that this will happen EVERY month. And that there is no cap on what I can make (whereas it seemed as if there was a cap on the popup) Email states there's no cap by saying "You get $xx if you reach this many hands, of course if you exceed those hands you will be rewarded as well" There's no stating whether the reward is equal to the original offer, I planned on calling tommorrow to find out/barter.

They also included the direct line of a representative I'm dealing with.

I'm a 4 tabler who had just recently switched over to Intertops about 2.5 months ago. I switched back over to party just in the past few days. I did not know that you could close your account so I was kicking myself that I started back up on Party when I could have simply signed up for an affiliate. But I got this email the next day.

The email was prefaced by "we miss you at Party Poker" so its anyone's guess as to what that means to the general public.

I worked out the stats and its about 6.6 cents per raked hand. Slightly less than I was getting on Intertops, but about what I would have gotten under an affiliate offering 20% back to me on Party. I have no idea what % of the hands I play per hour are raked however.

EDIT: I completely missed this when I read the email beforehand. "Knowing that you have left us for another web site that has offered you incentives, I firmly believe that I can make you a better bonus offer to return to PartyPoker.com."

Re: They have implemented it!
 

so...party will give you 6-7ptbb/100 for playing the 50nl tables? does this make sense?

Re: They have implemented it!
 

paying you six cents per raked hand. For me I get about 350 hands/hr in (4 tabling 6 max limit) so about $20 an hour if all the hands were raked. As I said, I have no idea what % of my hands are raked. I'm guessing about 75% of the hands are, so about $15/hr for me.

Re: They have implemented it!
 

ahh...still seems okay...damn, I didnt get that email...bastages!

Re: They have implemented it!
 

It wasn't marked as from Party Poker, it was sent from the representative. I almost didn't open it because the title of it was "Very Important" and I thought it was Spam.

Re: They have implemented it!
 

I hope party does start up a player rewards system because then I will sign up for rake back on top of that. I love you party poker!

Re: They have implemented it!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hope party does start up a player rewards system because then I will sign up for rake back on top of that. I love you party poker!

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, the problem with this approach [by party] is that they are still gonna have to be paying affiliates a % of MGR on top of the player reward.. and there will be affilates who pass this on to players.
if the bonus completely negates money paid to affiliates, you are gonna have some pretty pissed off affiliates... the only way this would work is if they completely switched their affiliate payments to a single payment per new user signup

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...

[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing, it would make everyone feel good, even the players who don't know anything about rakeback at this point. If nothing else, Party would benefit from this being spread by word of mouth. Second, they could structure it in a way that the low volume players get a negligible percentage, but something nonetheless. The high volume players would get a higher percentage. Third, and most importantly, once they notice, a lot of players would have the incentive to start playing more hands because of this, which would generate more rake for Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crikey, this is what I suggested that PokerStars do about 3 months ago.

If party does it and succeeds, someone should hire me as an analyst.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is GENIUS. It seems so easy but they should do it!!

[/ QUOTE ]

If Party really wanted to maximize their profits, they would go to a system where they pay a one time flat fee to an affiliate for a new player signup. This would eliminate the "poaching" between the affiliates, and alleviate a lot of internal headaches for Party. The really huge benefit is that they could take the MGR that they're currently paying the affiliate, and return LESS of it to the player on a volume basis. The more hands he plays, the higher percentage he gets, capped at 25% or whatever. This would then start to feed on itself, as many players would voluntarily start playing more hands to get the extra money.

At any rate, Party would be paying out less than they used to, so they would be making more profit with the added benefit of eliminating the poaching between affiliates.

Re: They have implemented it!
 

All the arguments at this point, however logical, are pure speculation at this point, so my speculation would be that there's no way in heck Party is going to offer what I received to people already signed up in affiliates.

My email specifically mentioned that I left party because I Was receiving bonuses elsewhere. This leads me to believe people already signed up with affiliates are not eligible.

Party understands that rake wars will kill the industry, their revenue, growth potential, and stock price. Giving both at the same time would equal almost half my rake coming back to me.

It's in pokerstars and Party's best interest not to have rake wars against eachother. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some sort of agreement there. But once a viable 3rd network appears that uses a rakewar (2/3 off) the industry will be in trouble.

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do agree with your one point though, why would Party offer rakeback to everyone? Makes no sense...


[/ QUOTE ]

bc i just started playing poker and i suck. i lose 500 at .5/1. damn im broke.

furthermore if party is giving rakeback to the affiliates wouldnt it be better (for party) if the money was actually returning to the site via losing players continually playing.

at the end of the month i get 100 dollars deposited in my account bc of rakeback and guess what i do with it?

Re: There\'s been talk on these boards of Party implementing some sort of
 

this is somewhat similar to truepoker, where affiliates are only paid for the first year a player plays there

Say, What ???? I am pretty sure that Truepoker pays for the life of the player ....

... but I'll check on that.

David

(I am posting under TrueCEO because once again, I lost my password for my other account and cannot seem to get it sent to me from 2+2.)