Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

This is an interesting website, entirely from the POV of the non-rakeback paying affiliate. web page

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

I emailed Jon Kyl and strongly suggested he go after the affiliates in the online gambling industry.

Waiting for reply.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

This thread is particularly interesting. Affiliates talking about Party's policy on rakeback

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Getting Sen. Kyl to take an axe to affiliate marking is an awful idea. 2p2 thinking players may not like the idea of affiliates free-riding on their rake, but let's face it, these guys do a service to the 2p2 community by bringing dead money to the game. If somehow affiliate marketing by US-based affiliates became a cause celebre for the anti-gambling forces, make no mistake: our games would get worse. Short answer: Don't be an idiot.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

You all have no idea what affiliate marketing is.

When an internet company (for example an online poker site) advertises on the internet, it gives everyone a unique code. This way they can track their profit or loss on the campaign.

Most of the time, they give the advertiser a percentage of the purchase (i.e % of the rake) or a payment for a lead.

If the website insists on a flat payment, the internet company still tracks the profit/loss on the campaign to make sure it has a decent roi (i.e. I pay $1000 flat for the campaign each month, but I need to make sure I make at least $4000 a month in sales).

Rakeback affiliates basically use this process to give the rake back. Instead of an advertising payment, they just give the payment to the player. This is because they do not do any actual advertising because the player already knows about the site.

So if you hate on "non-rakeback" affiliates, you are really just hating on anyone that advertises internet gambling, which includes 2+2.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

[ QUOTE ]
Getting Sen. Kyl to take an axe to affiliate marking is an awful idea. 2p2 thinking players may not like the idea of affiliates free-riding on their rake, but let's face it, these guys do a service to the 2p2 community by bringing dead money to the game. If somehow affiliate marketing by US-based affiliates became a cause celebre for the anti-gambling forces, make no mistake: our games would get worse. Short answer: Don't be an idiot.

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Yeah, but affiliates in the U.S. could easily be crucified by Kyl since he could tie in their income coming from an illegal entity. It would give him something to do at least.

Feel free to email him your views. He's from my district and he has never replied to me about this issue. I told him please don't ban online poker as it's my quadraplegics son only source of income. I asked him if he really wanted to take away the livlihood of disabled people. I told him if he ever got his bill close to passing I would wheel my son to the senate doorstep and have him speak of how wonderful online poker is for quads. Then have him cry and call Jon Kyl the Devil.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Wow, those affiliates really are clueless. They seem to not think rakeback occurs, or at least have no idea its as widespread as it is. Those people who offer nothing back to their players make me sick.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

I work in internet advertising for a living and I also am quite familiar with online poker and affiliates. Your analgoy is horrible.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

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I work in internet advertising for a living and I also am quite familiar with online poker and affiliates. You are a non-rakeback paying affiliate and your bias is very obvious

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Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Are you saying I am? Because I am not an affiliate, rakeback or otherwise.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

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He's from my district

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He represents a state not a district. Thats a big difference between the House and Senate.

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I told him please don't ban online poker as it's my quadraplegics son only source of income. I asked him if he really wanted to take away the livlihood of disabled people.

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If this is not true - you are an [censored].

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

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Are you saying I am? Because I am not an affiliate, rakeback or otherwise.

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haha, no, not you, the dude you replied to

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

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Are you saying I am? Because I am not an affiliate, rakeback or otherwise. Plus in any event, you idiot, my post was clearly critical of the poster who had been defending affilates not paying rakeback.

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Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

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I work in internet advertising for a living and I also am quite familiar with online poker and affiliates. You are a non-rakeback paying affiliate and your bias is very obvious

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Suggesting that anyone with a differing opinion than yours must be a non-rakeback paying affiliate is simple minded.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, those affiliates really are clueless. They seem to not think rakeback occurs, or at least have no idea its as widespread as it is. Those people who offer nothing back to their players make me sick.

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Rakeback is not widespread!... The amount of players joining poker sites thru rakeback affiliates compared to the number coming from non-rakeback affiliates is small.

I don't know of any Amazon affiliates offering rakeback to people buying books thru their links, do you?

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

The people on the forum are clueless.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Good point. "widespread" as a realtive term. It's widespread here. I know rb affils who have hundreds of people under them, so low thousands total. I guess that's not that widespread in the grand scheme.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

I'm amazed that someone would actually call another forum a name like that. Many of the people posting in that forum are very successful and hardworking webmasters, and the forum is NOT made up entirely of non-rakeback paying affiliates.

Not only is your post and namecalling rude, but it's inaccurate.

I also consider it flaming and trolling, which isn't welcome on any forum that I know of.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

That's a brilliant move, since Kyl wants to make online poker clearly illegal. (Don't most of the people on this forum play online poker?)

Why would anyone think that John Kyl is going to do anything to help an online gambler?

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

[ QUOTE ]
You all have no idea what affiliate marketing is....

...Rakeback affiliates basically use this process to give the rake back. Instead of an advertising payment, they just give the payment to the player. This is because they do not do any actual advertising because the player already knows about the site...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just plain wrong. Rake back affiliates are some of the biggest advertisers on 2+2. If they didn't advertise for the past year how would rake back be so popular and so many players already know about it?

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Well in defense of these non-rakeback paying affiliates - if PartyPoker's policy states that giving rakeback is forbidden one can make a STRONG or perhaps undeniable case that anyone who gives rakeback is commiting fraud.

And these affiliate managers on that site have a good point re: rakeback sites basically just cannibalizing the affiliates who brought the players to Party in the first place. So someone else plays by the rules, brings customers to a business partner, and then someone comes in, breaks the rules, and steals your customers.

My personal opinion is that if you CHOOSE to be an affiliate of PartyPoker you ought to follow their rules or at the very least you certainly can't complain if someone calls you out on being deceptive.

Flame away. For the record I am not an affiliate one way or the other. I don't blame people for wanting rakeback...I was getting it on a Party Skin until the big change.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You all have no idea what affiliate marketing is....

...Rakeback affiliates basically use this process to give the rake back. Instead of an advertising payment, they just give the payment to the player. This is because they do not do any actual advertising because the player already knows about the site...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just plain wrong. Rake back affiliates are some of the biggest advertisers on 2+2. If they didn't advertise for the past year how would rake back be so popular and so many players already know about it?

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Yes I must say that there is a big advertising budget for large rakeback affiliates. Look around. You would be shocked at what my site pays a month to 2+2, its just a drop in the bucket of their overall revenue. I would say rakeback affiliates spend even more money then "traditional" affiliates on advertising. The difference is that in many cases "traditional" affiliates spend a lot of money and time on content where the rakeback affiliate spends that time on support and calculating/paying players rakeback.

Re: Level 2 thinking: watching the affiliates watch you
 

Mat-

Thanks for removing the "flamey, troll-y" language from the original post in this thread.