Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

I am wondering if I should employee a stop/loss method to decide when to quit a session of 10/20 Limit. EX: If I am ahead 10 BB and I lose 5 BB on the next hand should I quit to maintain my profit. Most of the articles I read say not to do this but, it seems to never fail that I get ahead and then get 2-3 big hands cracked and end up losing.

Thanks,

Greg

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

You stop when your no longer playing your "A" game...or you go broke. We all have played when we shouldn't. The game never ends unless you stop forever.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

The problem with a stop-loss technique is that if your a winning player it turns into a stop-win technique. As long as you can honestly say to yourself that your playing in a good game and that your losses aren't effecting your play then you should keep playing until you feel inclined to quit. If your a losing player who plays for fun then there's nothing wrong with stop-loss.

Mike Caro's talks more about it here

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

Many of us here have our roots in blackjack and have carried over the idea that all playing sessions are really part of one big session, and when we employ stoplosses we are just playing mind games with ourselves.

This concept is accurate for blackjack because it is a closed parameter game - which is to say that all the variables are known and measurable.

Unfortunately, this concept does not transfer well to poker at all, because poker is fundamentally different in that regard. When you are losing, you may not know the real reason. Two variables which are hard to pin down are the skill and the honestly of your fellow players. At the end of the day, you just don't know if you saved a bet by folding or got bluffed out of a pot. Likewise you just don't know if both of the players who raised you out of a pot had strong hands or if there was collusion.

Therefore, i am going to dissent from the majority and maintain that a stoploss - at least to indicate a table change - is a good idea.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

Cincy brings up a couple good points. You should NEVER stop-loss to "preserve your profit" because it makes no sense, but if it's possible that there's cheating, the other players are sharks, you're on tilt, or they're playing better against you because you're losing, all of these are valid reasons to quit a game and a stop-loss might be "accidentally correct".

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

I always play for as long as I consider myself to be in a lucrative game and I am playing well. Once the game changes and is no longer good, or my play deteriorates, I'm out. It shouldn't have anything to do with your stack size, or whether you're up or down.

Kirk

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

While I see the points in both (actually all three) sides presented here, I think about it a little differently.

It's extremely hard to know when you are playing your best Poker. You don't have a coach or partner to critique you. While it can't make sense to quit every time you lose a few pots, it does make sense to worry if you "never fail" to lose back your profits. If you track your results and discover that you have real losing streaks, beyond what is expected by random chance, it certainly makes sense to try to correct that. Quitting is only a short-term patch, you need a better long-term solution. But until you figure one out, better not to play.

However, the best reason not to quit after a loss is the loss should increase your future expected value. If you went to showdown and lost with a strong hand, you can expect people to fold faster against you. If you got called with a complete bluff, you can expect people to call your future bets. If you folded after contributing a lot to the pot, you can expect people to bluff you. You can exploit any one of these tendencies.

The biggest reason for losing streaks, in my experience, is playing the way people expect losers to play. That means each loss makes you easier to beat. Doing the opposite makes your losses productive.

If your losses are not productive it's either because you're not losing the right way, or you're not adjusting your play properly afterwards.

Great post
 

Really great post. I have never thought about it quite that way before. It's a shame you don't post in the NL sections of the forum [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Kirk

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

I've posted on this topic here. To those who have read this before, the answer is yes, I will continue to link it everytime I see a related new post.

I also think that Aaron has excellent advice here.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

If it's a great game (you are bette rthan your opponents and they are making lots of mistakes, etc) then you shouldn't quit, no matter how much you are ahead/behind.

If you have a tendency to tilt if you are way behind or play conservative if you are way up, only then would a stop loss/gain be worth considering.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

Nice post...

[ QUOTE ]
It's extremely hard to know when you are playing your best Poker. You don't have a coach or partner to critique you.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not extremely hard if you learn how to analyze hands, know the reasoning/justification/value behind any play you make and are brutally honest with yourself about your own play/mindset regardless of the game you're in. The last one can be the toughest.

Fact is, most players are too lazy to develop those attributes.

b

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nice post...

[ QUOTE ]
It's extremely hard to know when you are playing your best Poker. You don't have a coach or partner to critique you.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not extremely hard if you learn how to analyze hands, know the reasoning/justification/value behind any play you make and are brutally honest with yourself about your own play/mindset regardless of the game you're in. The last one can be the toughest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is hardest to do this when you are winning, because it is quite easy to feel that there is no need to do so.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

It is rather simmple. If you are a winning player, you should theoretically never stop playing. However, if you're game starts to slip, it is possible that you are no longer a winning player at that limit playing the way you are playing. That is when you should stop, as playing is no longer profitable.

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

I only stop when I feel like I'm not playing well. You have to be honest with yourself. If you get tired you should stop too, but never stop just cause you on bad streak, if you playing well that won't last forever and if you got good bankroll management then you should be able to afford the swing without sweating it too much

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's not extremely hard if you learn how to analyze hands, know the reasoning/justification/value behind any play you make and are brutally honest with yourself about your own play/mindset regardless of the game you're in. The last one can be the toughest.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree completely, except I think we have different definitions of "hard." Most things are easy if you know what you're doing all the time and are brutally honest.

To me the problem is the same factors that make you play badly, make you misestimate your ability. If you get the idea that everyone at the table is better than you, you get scared. You fold a lot of hands, and tell yourself that you were wise to do it. Most of the time you never see the cards to prove you were wrong. It might take an hour of play to get convincing evidence that you're folding too much; and you might have given away three or four pots, including one big one, by then.

Or you can get mad and play too loose. If you steal a few small pots and get lucky in a big one, you can feel invulnerable. You tell yourself you own the table and know when the other players are going to fold, that you've got them all scared. You can make money playing like this for an hour, then give back three times that much in one hand (in no limit, anyway).

Re: Stop Loss- When to quit a Session
 

I'm not sure our definition of hard is that different.

[ QUOTE ]
If you get the idea that everyone at the table is better than you, you get scared. You fold a lot of hands,

[/ QUOTE ]

You should leave the table immediately. Why stay?

Alot of what you're saying in your post is having emotions(and ego) dictate play. If you have a strong game, and experience and the knowledge of the game backing you, emotions aren't going to tell you how loose or tight to play.

[ QUOTE ]
You fold a lot of hands, and tell yourself that you were wise to do it. Most of the time you never see the cards to prove you were wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this mean? This looks like hindsight thinking. There are times you will be folding for hours(plural) at a time. In that time, you may fold numerous winning hands. Essentially, watching your rush go by. That doesn't mean you should've been playing. If you know the solid theory behind your folds and can back it up, there shouldn't be any question about needing to see the cards to prove you were wrong.


To me, what you're describing is a weak player that doesn't likely know the game that well so they rely on feel and how they are 'running'. They lack the attributes that I described. Which, imo, makes them losing players in the long run.

One big test about how good someone is is how they play during the bad sessions/swings.

b