Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

It is becoming increasingly attractive to the skins to argue any possible excuse to simply seize accounts.

IMO this is the next step.

Please panic.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming increasingly attractive to the skins to argue any possible excuse to simply seize accounts. IMO this is the next step. Please panic.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what will stop them from withdrawing all the money from our Neteller/bank account without our authorization? And will this happen before or after a meteor strikes the United States and renders the Earth uninhabitable?

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming increasingly attractive to the skins to argue any possible excuse to simply seize accounts.

IMO this is the next step.

Please panic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, this is really encouraging. I have been away from my home comp all weekend, and don't get back until tonight. I'm praying I can still cash out.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

you are one twisted fxxk sometimes

you seriously need to get outside more . . . . that pattern mapper is messing with your head.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] busguy

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
And will this happen before or after a meteor strikes the United States and renders the Earth uninhabitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Before. Obviously.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I call it as I see it. I wasn't joking.

And no, all monies are not in the control IGMPAY (party).

Eurobet's and Intertops' are in the control of their sportsbooks. These I'm worried about the least, as they have large betting operations in Europe and are not likely to fail on payment...but they'll delay a lot (I'm sure Intertops will delay a week or more, as usual on their cashouts, creating further panic).

From Empire, I have become used to expect anything, and IMO that's where funds are in greatest danger.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming increasingly attractive to the skins to argue any possible excuse to simply seize accounts.

IMO this is the next step.

Please panic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been seriously concerned about this as well. I cashed pretty much everything out of empire immediately.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

These posts are absolutely worthless and do nothing except to scare the newbies, please cut it out. There is absolutely no chance the party skins will take player funds.

J

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I sure hope you are right Jason. I understand your point of view. I disagree in the likelihood %.

I know 100% they won't take any from me.

Best.

B

Edited to add: I'm opening a RB PARTY account, on the other hand...

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

It's times like this that you realise that Poker Stars is the best site around. They are the only Poker Site that ensures that always have enough funds to cover their clients cash balances - none of the others do - technically if everyone requested a cash out at the same time at a.n.other poker site would not be able to honour the agreements - I cam only guess as to what would happen next [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's times like this that you realise that Poker Stars is the best site around. They are the only Poker Site that ensures that always have enough funds to cover their clients cash balances - none of the others do - technically if everyone requested a cash out at the same time at a.n.other poker site would not be able to honour the agreements - I cam only guess as to what would happen next [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, people on this site get more retarded every day.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

Haha I hope you're laughing as hard as I am. You're gonna give a bunch of your fellow zootians heart attacks.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's times like this that you realise that Poker Stars is the best site around. They are the only Poker Site that ensures that always have enough funds to cover their clients cash balances - none of the others do - technically if everyone requested a cash out at the same time at a.n.other poker site would not be able to honour the agreements - I cam only guess as to what would happen next [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

technically if everyone went to their bank and asked for their money at the same time...

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is absolutely <font color="red"> no </font>chance the party skins will take player funds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing and I mean Nothing is 100% certain. Always keep your exposure to a minimum. I do not feel safe when my money is in the bank either but still I keep some there...


ToT

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And will this happen before or after a meteor strikes the United States and renders the Earth uninhabitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Before. Obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

baah, we'll be fine as long as it only strikes the US...

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

Theards like this only make it more likly that the skins freeze accounts from all the cashouts, becasue they make everyone panic and withdraw.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's times like this that you realise that Poker Stars is the best site around. They are the only Poker Site that ensures that always have enough funds to cover their clients cash balances - none of the others do - technically if everyone requested a cash out at the same time at a.n.other poker site would not be able to honour the agreements - I cam only guess as to what would happen next [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

technically if everyone went to their bank and asked for their money at the same time...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, all that says to me is PokerStars really really really needs to hire a guy who's had a finance class before.

Pretty basic stuff.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

FYI. Having some concern about this I cashed out $2,000 last night from Empire. The money was in my Neteller account by this morning.

FWIW, I still have a little money left at EP. I am still deciding whether or not to withdraw the remaining funds.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call it as I see it. I wasn't joking.

And no, all monies are not in the control IGMPAY (party).

Eurobet's and Intertops' are in the control of their sportsbooks. These I'm worried about the least, as they have large betting operations in Europe and are not likely to fail on payment...but they'll delay a lot (I'm sure Intertops will delay a week or more, as usual on their cashouts, creating further panic).

From Empire, I have become used to expect anything, and IMO that's where funds are in greatest danger.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Empire will change all business to Noble-Poker in 2005 and be bankrupt in spring 2006...guaranteed...

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Nothing and I mean Nothing is 100% certain. Always keep your exposure to a minimum. I do not feel safe when my money is in the bank either but still I keep some there...

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed.
I'm MOSTLY with Jason on this one...but won't go so far as to say NO chance.
but I also won't say that there is ZERO chance that the sun won't rise tomorrow.


I feel 99.99999% 'comfortable' with the money in my bank.
I previously felt about 99.9678% 'comfortable' with the money I have in Empire.
I currently have adjusted this to about 99.9670% 'comfortable' with the money I have in Empire.


the difference in the chances of them just deciding to close-up shop and keep your money from before as opposed to now is virtually negligible.


There are PLENTY of online-sites who have an even smaller player-base than Empire who are doing fine.

They may even be doing BETTER now (or close to it) for all we know.
I have no idea how much they had to give back to Party before...but now they obviously get to keep more of it.


It LOOKS like there are virtually no tables running at the skins...but you don't know whether they had THAT many more players there in the first place.
Obviously some of the multi-tabling TAG's have left but we really don't know what kind of difference they are facinig.

On top of that....even if they only ran a handful of tables they are STILL making a profit. It's not like they have huge operating costs.


Do you think that TruePoker is going under also?
They have significantly fewer tables running than Empire.


What about all the prima and crypto skins?
There really aren't that many games going on over there yet there are about 9-zillion skins dividing up all those players.
How many players are really getting on via Littlewoods, Carib-Sun, BetonBet, etc etc?


some people need to do a better job of thinking this stuff through and need to stop freaking panicking.

It's unnecessary and annoying.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I also made a cashout from Empire asap, and the money is already in my NeTeller account. I tried to cash out from eurobet but at that time the cashier wasn't working. By the time I could move my money from poker to sports, I was a bit calmer and I don't worry so much so I think I'll leave it there since I'm going to play on eurobet either way.

I'm not worried about my money at party. Even if I were I wouldn't cash it out right now since I'm not far from clearing a bonus, that would break my bonus.

So to sum it up, I'm not very worried, and I don't think EP would have taken my money had I left it.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea how much they had to give back to Party before...but now they obviously get to keep more of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you think this?
I would think that their contract with Party has not changed. Party is still providing all the same services and therefore is still probably being compensated similarly.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

You guys are so paranoid...the people who have $2,000 in Empire are more worried than the people that have $20,000 or more. The only thing i'm worried about is whether we'll get rakeback on Party...

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I only left $1.50 at Empire so I'm not too worried.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I got 80 cents at multi-poker.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Haha I hope you're laughing as hard as I am. You're gonna give a bunch of your fellow zootians heart attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]
shouldn't it be zooligans

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]

There is absolutely no chance the party skins will take player funds.[ QUOTE ]


Nothing and I mean Nothing is 100% certain. Always keep your exposure to a minimum. I do not feel safe when my money is in the bank either but still I keep some there...

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Havana,

The point of my phrasing was to counteract the paranoia on the forum. Yes, nothing is certain, there is some very small percent chance (i.e. &lt; 0.001%) something could happen, but for all intents and purposes your money is safe.

It's just frustrating to me the position some people are taking to promote the doom and gloom without thinking things over. Sure, things aren't as good for the skins as they were a week ago, but they are still making money. It's a setback for them, but it's not the end of the world by any stretch. They will take steps to bring in new players just like they were doing before this happened and just like before it happened it will continue to work.

Currently, there are over nine thousand people playing on the skins network (myself included), and I personally think those numbers will go up at least somewhat over the coming weeks as things stabilize. Those numbers put the skins network as a solid player in the industry (we essentially have a "big six" instead of a "big five" now...or perhaps a "big five and a half" depending on how you want to look at it). In addition, this network has two major sportsbooks attached to it which only helps to add to the network's stability/legitimacy.

Long story short, (unless things change drastically for the worse) the network is not going anywhere and player money is safe.

J

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's times like this that you realise that Poker Stars is the best site around. They are the only Poker Site that ensures that always have enough funds to cover their clients cash balances - none of the others do - technically if everyone requested a cash out at the same time at a.n.other poker site would not be able to honour the agreements - I cam only guess as to what would happen next [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

technically if everyone went to their bank and asked for their money at the same time...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, all that says to me is PokerStars really really really needs to hire a guy who's had a finance class before.

Pretty basic stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you saying here? That these businesses don't have an obligation to guarantee these deposits?

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

I have always been under the impression that placing money online in any offshore location was caveat emptor.

However, until the X-Party network's contracts with Party run out your money will be safe. While we may not be able to sue a skin for "taking the money and running", I'm certain that Party would.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

If empire freeze cashouts they'll go bankrupt immediately. They're a publically listed company. I imagine Coral is too.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

No, he's saying that you don't need to keep enough cash on hand to cover ever dollar held on deposit all the time. That's overkill, because the odds that every account holder will withdraw every dollar in their account on the same day (barring an event you could react to) is effectively 0.

If you look at a bank, and totalled the amount of money as "available balance" for all customer accounts, then looked at all available cash on hand (with which they could fulfil withdrawl requests), you'd see that the former is far larger than the latter.

If you held all of the cash you were given as deposits, you'd never be able to use that cash to generate profit. A bank takes deposits from people, and uses that money to provide loans to other people. They charge more interest on loans than they on deposits, and pocket the difference (among other things).

Guaranteeing a deposit can be withdrawn to each customer assumes that not every customer will want to do that at the same time.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
A bank takes deposits from people, and uses that money to provide loans to other people. They charge more interest on loans than they on deposits, and pocket the difference (among other things).


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they loan out 10-100 times as much as they have on hand, if you can believe it.

Nice racket.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, he's saying that you don't need to keep enough cash on hand to cover ever dollar held on deposit all the time. That's overkill, because the odds that every account holder will withdraw every dollar in their account on the same day (barring an event you could react to) is effectively 0.

If you look at a bank, and totalled the amount of money as "available balance" for all customer accounts, then looked at all available cash on hand (with which they could fulfil withdrawl requests), you'd see that the former is far larger than the latter.

If you held all of the cash you were given as deposits, you'd never be able to use that cash to generate profit. A bank takes deposits from people, and uses that money to provide loans to other people. They charge more interest on loans than they on deposits, and pocket the difference (among other things).

Guaranteeing a deposit can be withdrawn to each customer assumes that not every customer will want to do that at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that right or wrong, this is how banks work. However, an internet poker site is not a bank. They are not in the business of investing the money in your account, they make their money from the rake. When a site starts using player deposits to pay the bills, you end up how Pokerspot/Dutch Boyd did.

Re: Ahead of the curve=>Next step: Confiscation.
 

It does not matter if pokerstars NEEDS to have the cash on hand to cover every persons account ballance, the fact is that they do have the cash on hand ... needed or not. Yes it is overkill but this is something they do to ensure that people are confident in putting large amounts on money on there.