Aces against wtfsvi
 

Button here is Hattifnatt, who posts here a bit. He raises a lot. My threebetting range here is pretty wide, although I am not sure what wtfsvi thinks it is. He is BB. Good games at eurobet now eh? Wtfsvi is thinking, aggressive, and tricky. He certainly isn't afraid to play with me, quite the opposite it seems, likes to do delayed bluffs and various fancy plays in position against me.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($394)
Hero ($396)
BB ($400)
UTG ($291.90)
MP ($402.20)
CO ($631.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $63</font>, BB calls $61, CO folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($154) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $100</font>, BB calls $100.

Turn: ($354) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($354) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB calls $235 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $589

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB doesn't show.
Outcome: BB wins $589. </font>

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

You played your hand like a missed AQs or something. Why did you check the turn?

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Fold pf.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Despite the Norwegians luck, you can't check behind on that river, I think you played this fine. This thread would of been a lot more interesting had he pushed the turn.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Despite the Norwegians luck, you can't check behind on that river, I think you played this fine. This thread would of been a lot more interesting had he pushed the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, or on the flop.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Give me a range for him on the turn.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Give me a range for him on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I give you a range preflop. Aces or Kings.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Why not push the turn?

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Give me a range for him on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

KK-TT, AK-AQ possibly [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]'s.

I doubt hes re-raising often against a 2+2'er w/ suited connectors or some other well disguised hands unless theres deep stacks.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Despite the Norwegians luck, you can't check behind on that river, I think you played this fine. This thread would of been a lot more interesting had he pushed the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mis-read the hand at first.

I believe my hand range is still accurate on the turn besides AQ and QQ,TT.

You played this fine imo, the river sucks but the only hand I realistically see you beating here is AK, unlikely though.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Give me a range for him on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I give you a range preflop. Aces or Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

or queens

or AK

or AQ

or JJ

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

There is definitly no AQ in my range. Remember, I'm not stupid.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

how could u possibly not push turn.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I am a bit torn on whether AK is in your range. Not because I think you fold, but cause I think you push that.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is definitly no AQ in my range. Remember, I'm not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

nonono, im giving the range for the OP pre-flop, in response to whoever said he ONLY has AA/KK

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is definitly no AQ in my range. Remember, I'm not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

And AK, JJ are out too, unless you think they are both full of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I'm only talking pre.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I think bukem was reffering to my preflop range. I could be wrong though.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I think you misunderstood Bukem. And my range is way wider than that, although some of the hands are only reraised occasionally.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

yea i read it wrong

stupid pronouns

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is definitly no AQ in my range. Remember, I'm not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

And AK, JJ are out too, unless you think they are both full of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I'm only talking pre.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I should really take the time to read posts properly, only just realised wtfsvi wasn't orig raiser. His call clearly indicates AA-QQ, AA being unlikely and KK being more likely than QQ.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is definitly no AQ in my range. Remember, I'm not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

And AK, JJ are out too, unless you think they are both full of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I'm only talking pre.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I should really take the time to read posts properly, only just realised wtfsvi wasn't orig raiser. His call clearly indicates AA-QQ, AA being unlikely and KK being more likely than QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding DIng Ding. THought I went crazy for a second this weak tight forum suddenly burning money with aq.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Will WTFSVI oblige us with what he had? I am curious.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Was this on eurobet? or was this on party?

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Push turn. If he outdrew you, he paid too much to do so. I'm never folding when I get that much of my stack in preflop.

Edit: Oh, I'm also re-raising bigger out of the blinds. Make it 80 at least, IMO. If people fold too often, do it more frequently. It is better to make your raises bigger out of position and then balance the frequency for the bigger raise rather than to make them smaller and then balance the frequency for the smaller raise.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I agree with reraising bigger out of the blinds.

but are you saying due to how much wtf called preflop, even if he outflops us, its ok?

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Yup. If he has KK here and I get it all in on the turn every time a K flops and he folds the flop every time a K doesn't flop (unlikely!) I'm still making money from his preflop call. But if I start letting him bluff me out on the river for less than a pot-sized bet then I'm likely going to be losing money. So if he's playing normal, push the turn. If he's playing super aggro, check turn and check river but you better call if he bets. NO FOLDING! (Which is even clearer if you make it 80 preflop. Another good reason to make it 80. Postflop plays itself.)

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Will WTFSVI oblige us with what he had? I am curious.

[/ QUOTE ]
He obviously had the nuts. Come on dude, it's Wtfsvi.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

You're right about preflop, no question. It's weird, I thought I had bet sizes down decently, but last week I made too samll reraises with aces at least three times. I lost big pots on all three hands, so maybe that will teach me finally.
Also, of course I won't ever fold this hand if I make it 80 pre.

I disagree however with just getting it in knowing its -EV cause I reraised preflop. It's really rare for me to fold in those spots, but sometimes it can be correct. It may or may not be in this instance. And as for getting bluffed out, well me and wtfsvi don't really have any metagame thing going yet, but if he starts thinking he can push me around I just have to adapt to that and call him more. I don't see that as a big problem. Also people that have played with me know I am not exactly a big folder.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

[ QUOTE ]
Was this on eurobet? or was this on party?

[/ QUOTE ]
eurobet

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

One of my favorite lines in TOP:

"If you act weak and induce a bluff, you must call it when he bets" (Paraphrased)

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

True, although that is not what I was doing.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Yet it's very possible that it had that effect.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I had KK in this hand, and I think my preflop range for calling preflop at the moment was pretty much AA-QQ. Don't know if I'd push or call or fold with AK, probably fold.

I had been very aggressive and tricky, pulling all sorts of weird moves on Emil, so I was in passive mode. Not about to try to make him make laydowns. Therefore, the tight calling range preflop. If Emil was on to that, good third(/fourth/fifth or whatever. I don't feel like counting.)-level thinking by him and a hand very well played.

On the flop, I figured I'd let him push the turn himself since I, while I thought he was on a real hand, was not sure of it. That's also the reason for the turn check behind. I wanted to give him every oportunity to bluff off his stack if he didn't have anything. In retrospect, I think I should push the turn since the turn check behind followed by the river push shows more strength because of the above mentioned oportunity for him to bluff, and because I knew Emil was on to my delayed bluffing, but I hadn't shown down a delayed bluff yet. (So even though it was obvious what was going on from a previous hand, maybe he hadn't adjusted to me knowing that he knew. He probably had though.)

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

What do you do with KK if he makes it 80 preflop?

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I'm flat calling and not getting away on a rag flop. Not doing anything different from now I think.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I agree. Which is why that's the play from his end for sure. Postflop plays itself.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Well. A pot sized raise is to $68, right? And he raised to $65. I don't really think we can fault him for making a pot sized raise. I don't know if $80 would be better, but $65 is not bad.

I think he played the hand very well. But it's really tough to give advice on hands between two players that adapt to each others current play in a forum like this. These situations are where the game and discussion gets interesting though.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

I always raise/re-raise more than pot sized out of the blinds. There is nothing magical about pot-sized. And when you look at stack sizes (which you should do when re-raising) 80 seems to make more sense than 70 here, IMO. Obviously not a huge deal. But you are going to feel more comfortable knowing that you can't make a mistake postflop. 70 is just a LITTLE bit borderline for that. Which gives the nagging feeling of 'maybe I should fold' which is just a lot worse mindset than being committed preflop. Let others know where you're at. It will also help you steal if you re-raise big in general.

Re: Aces against wtfsvi
 

Like I said previously, I totally agree with TWP in this. It was a mistake, and also a mistake that I think a lot of people make. When someone reraises small out of the blinds against me, and I know he is on a tight range, I lick my lips. Often the players that raise too small are also the palyers that don't raise enough.