AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

15/30 and yes that's correct 8 limpers, me with AA in the BB and I wrap the table. My friend sweating thought it was the worse thing he's seen. In the car we were split 2 thought it was horrendous 2 thought it was OK. ?

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

can you give your reasoning for not raising AA pre-flop when your equity is ginormous

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

You win this hand WAY more than 1 in 8 times... You should be raising for value..

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

[ QUOTE ]
can you give your reasoning for not raising AA pre-flop when your equity is ginormous

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that's true but unless you play in LA it's hard to explain. Bad reasoning at that moment but a raise here IMO will only make it; more likely to lose the hand + the CO was rather aggressive so I felt if the flop was right I could clear out the field. It's no excuse but I was also getting outdrawn a lot. Eh when you're running bad you play scared (people preach not to do it but it's impossible IMO)

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

yeah a raise basically gives any hand with more than one out odds to call on the flop.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

i thought this thread was a joke.
now youre sounding really serious? either way im not sure why im posting.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

haha. my thought's exactly.

what happened? i blacked out.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

[ QUOTE ]
but a raise here IMO will only make it; more likely to lose the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is true - but you are (over)compensated for this reduction in likelihood of winning by the $ that is going into the pot now.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

I think this is a very advanced play even though u don't seem to recognize it.

You should always think about why you are raising. In this case 7 ppl are already in the pot in front of u. Preflop Raising is used to do 1 of 3 things.

1) Build a bigger pot.
2) Knock ppl out of a hand when your hand is vulnerable.
3) Alert people to your holdings.

Answer to 1) You do NOT want to build a bigger pot here becuase then EVERYONE will be out to win this pot and stay till the end and you are far less likely to win the pot at the end of the hand.

2) 7 people in a pot already, nobody will fold to 1 more bet (especially from someone in the blinds) Use ur BB position to disguise ur hand and if and when an ace flops u are GOLDEN. Nobody on earth can put u on Aces cause u didnt raise preflop with 8 ppl in the pot.

When the flop is favourable for you its MUCH easier to get ppl out of the pot post flop once they havnt hit anything.

Especially if you flop a monster. You can slow play the flop and get a few more ppl to stay in till the turn and river where u can extract more money from them.

Normally i would never say check preflop but with that many people in a pot and u being out of position id say check away and get away from your hand if a very scary flop comes or more then 1 person shows alot of strength.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

You have two nut flush draws...raise it up.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Build a bigger pot.

Answer to 1) You do NOT want to build a bigger pot here becuase then EVERYONE will be out to win this pot and stay till the end and you are far less likely to win the pot at the end of the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely do want to build a bigger pot with AA. The object of the game isn't just to win pots, it is to win money. Raising AA here has a significant positive EV.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Knock ppl out of a hand when your hand is vulnerable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another case of wanting to win money, not pots. With AA, you actually want opponents to call, sure, your chances of winning drop, but the bigger pot makes up for it.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Alert people to your holdings.
Use ur BB position to disguise ur hand and if and when an ace flops u are GOLDEN. Nobody on earth can put u on Aces cause u didnt raise preflop with 8 ppl in the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

8 limpers to you in the BB, there are many hands you should be raising with.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

Raise preflop for huge value, you'll have trouble protecting your hand anyways against 8 opponents, you may as well charge them the max.

Try to mitigate the downside of swelling the pot by going for a check-raise, maybe on the turn. check-call-check-raise might be the best play postflop in many situations.

preflop: raise for value.
postflop: do what you can to win the huge pot.

good luck.
eric

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

Ok Question for ya.

Would you rather play AA against 7 opponents or J10 Suited?

I choose J10 Suited because of the obvious drawing potential. With so many people in the pot I would have to assume there are some Weak aces out there making your chances of improving next to nill. And making others chances with 6,7s 8,9s, 9,10 etc much greater chance of winning with straights and 2 pairs. And lets be honest. To win a pot with 7 opponents in it you basically must improve your hand. I think Raising preflop here only increases other peoples +EV not your own. You may have the best hand now but its unliekly you'll finish with the best hand.

That’s just how I see it though. AA is such a tough hand to play because it’s so difficult to get rid of mid hand. (Im not an amazing player so its hard for me to just throw it away [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I’m Probably wrong here but hey. Its my 2 Cents.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

Is this thread really still going? Are mid-high limit games this soft? Did someone just say raising aces isn't +EV? The only thing I agree with is flawless's thought process.

I'm going back to HUSH.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you rather play AA against 7 opponents or J10 Suited?

I choose J10 Suited..

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this (not rasing AA out of the BB after 8 limpers) is a very advanced play even though u don't seem to recognize it.


[/ QUOTE ]

These quotes and the entire thread are just so sad...

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

well, since money is the root of all evil, and raising puts more money in a pot that you are the favorite to win, you have relieved yourself of some evil.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

I quoted and replied to each point seperately but I can save everyone some reading. Basically, no matter how swell you play your Aces after the flop, I don't think you can even come close to making up the lost equity from not raising eight limpers with pocket Aces.


[ QUOTE ]

Answer to 1) You do NOT want to build a bigger pot here becuase then EVERYONE will be out to win this pot and stay till the end and you are far less likely to win the pot at the end of the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you DO want to build a bigger pot. With eight limpers, it's pretty clear that everyone is already out to win this pot so let's get the money in while our edge is fat.

[ QUOTE ]

2) 7 people in a pot already, nobody will fold to 1 more bet (especially from someone in the blinds) Use ur BB position to disguise ur hand and if and when an ace flops u are GOLDEN.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're twice as golden if an Ace hits after you raise pre-flop. Then you'll have not only the best hand but probably the best draw, as well, and the pot will be even fatter. Lovely!


[ QUOTE ]

When the flop is favourable for you its MUCH easier to get ppl out of the pot post flop once they havnt hit anything.


[/ QUOTE ]

This pot is going to be bloated no matter what you do and you are not taking it down on the flop. At least one or two people are going to pick up a draw or a pair or some hand they want to stick around with. Yes, with more money in the pot, more players would be correct (or closer to correct) to hang around but that's OK, they made their mistakes pre-flop by putting in their two bets.

[ QUOTE ]

Especially if you flop a monster. You can slow play the flop and get a few more ppl to stay in till the turn and river where u can extract more money from them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I like to have twice as much money in the pot when I flop my monsters.

[ QUOTE ]

Normally i would never say check preflop but with that many people in a pot and u being out of position id say check away and get away from your hand if a very scary flop comes or more then 1 person shows alot of strength.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't like this reasoning. Of everyone in the pot, you have the best chance of having the best hand on the flop. You're getting nine to one on your raise assuming the other blind comes along.

SpaceAce

UGH...Mods move this...
 

this is a small stakes or beginner question.

try the search function.

its been answered a million times.

raise the goddamn aces before th poker gods strike you down for being an idiot.

Barron

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

[ QUOTE ]
the CO was rather aggressive so I felt if the flop was right I could clear out the field.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can still do this even if you raise pre-flop. Checking into a field of 8 people will not look that strange.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

clearly raising aces is the right play here, but what about AKo in this same spot? (I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything, I'm just curious)

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

AK o figures to win more than its fair share of the time. Raise it preflop, as long as you can play well overcards well postflop. [Compared to this thread, I'm beginning to think Tex's post on AT s was a work of wisdom.]

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

THERE R 3 REASONS Y U RAISE.tO BUILD THE POT,TO THIN THE FIELD AND FOR INFO.iN THIS HAND U WANT 2 BUILD THE POT U HAVE WHAT IS COMMENLY CALLED 'risk aversion"u r afraid of losing money in a certain hand even though u r still a favorate in the long run against anyone elses hand.true ur winning percentages have gone down alot against this large feild but ur AA is still a top hand.so plaqy it the way its suppose 2 b played w a raise and then reevaluate on the flop,turn and then the river.I have won w pocket jj in an 11 handed flop.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

u have what ios called "RISK AVERSION"DONT PLAY SCARED U LOSE TO MUCH

Re: UGH...Mods move this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a small stakes or beginner question.

try the search function.

its been answered a million times.

raise the goddamn aces before th poker gods strike you down for being an idiot.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Just Listen to the man on the surfboard... Next.

My avatar. NO CONTENT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a small stakes or beginner question.

try the search function.

its been answered a million times.

raise the goddamn aces before th poker gods strike you down for being an idiot.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Just Listen to the man on the surfboard... Next.

[/ QUOTE ]

omg...h8 4 people who dont see that this is THIS:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ths/bigarc.jpg

barron

Re: My avatar. NO CONTENT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a small stakes or beginner question.

try the search function.

its been answered a million times.

raise the goddamn aces before th poker gods strike you down for being an idiot.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Just Listen to the man on the surfboard... Next.

[/ QUOTE ]

omg...h8 4 people who dont see that this is THIS:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ths/bigarc.jpg

barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst part is.. I've already seen you show that to someone. Owned.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

A crime against humanity.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you rather play AA against 7 opponents or J10 Suited?


[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, I'll take AA over any other hand in any situation.

JTs might be easier to play post-flop, but it has maybe half the EV in this situation.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are 3 good reasons why you would want to raise here: To build the pot, to thin the field, and for information. When you don't want to raise this hand, you have what is commonly called "risk aversion". You are afraid of losing money in a certain hand even though you are still a favorate in the long run. Although it is true that your winning percentages have gone down significantly against this large of a field. Your AA is still a top hand. My suggestion, would be to play it the way its supposed to be played, raise and then reevaluate on the flop, turn, and then the river. I have won with pocket jj in an 11 handed flop. (16 person table)

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

Since this is a 15 game, I'm guessing 8 limpers means there were a lot of mediocre/loose players, I'd go ahead and raise every time. At higher limits, where you might find a lot of good/loose players, issues of pot size manipulation and deception theoretically could be enough to outweigh raising for value. But in this case those other considerations have to outweigh getting 8 more bets into the pot, which with AA are going to be yours a very healthy % of the time, which adds up to a ton of value, so even then I doubt I'd pass that up.

Edit: To clarify what I mean by "theoretically", I mean if your hand was a lot weaker (say AK instead of AA), and there were a lot fewer limpers, the value in raising is a lot less, and could theoretically be outweighed by other considerations. AA in the BB with 8 limpers is a no-brainer raise in any game IMO.

Re: My avatar. NO CONTENT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a small stakes or beginner question.

try the search function.

its been answered a million times.

raise the goddamn aces before th poker gods strike you down for being an idiot.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Just Listen to the man on the surfboard... Next.

[/ QUOTE ]

omg...h8 4 people who dont see that this is THIS:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ths/bigarc.jpg

barron

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL I always thought it was a picture of a whale jumping out of the water.

Re: My avatar. NO CONTENT
 

[ QUOTE ]

LOL I always thought it was a picture of a whale jumping out of the water.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, me too.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

is this really a question in the mid-high? I think this would be a dumb question in the micro forum

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this really a question in the mid-high? I think this would be a dumb question in the micro forum

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL of course everyone on the internet is mistake free, 15/30 6 figure player. Yes 15/30 is so much money I'm afraid to lose it. BTW I did save myself a lot of money on this hand. Results oriented, yes but that's how poker is kept score. I know I don't make as much as some 15/30 players here but I have won 28 of the last 30 days and that does wonders for you when you play long term. And I don't go on these ridiculous 300BB downswings that people talk of(which to me says you've you've got a very high chance of burnout and/or ruin)

Re: My avatar. NO CONTENT
 

[ QUOTE ]
omg...h8 4 people who dont see that this is THIS

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised a smart guy like you have taken so long to realize this [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

And people get all worried about not getting rakeback.... Hahhahahaha.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL of course everyone on the internet is mistake free, 15/30 6 figure player. Yes 15/30 is so much money I'm afraid to lose it. BTW I did save myself a lot of money on this hand. Results oriented, yes but that's how poker is kept score. I know I don't make as much as some 15/30 players here but I have won 28 of the last 30 days and that does wonders for you when you play long term. And I don't go on these ridiculous 300BB downswings that people talk of(which to me says you've you've got a very high chance of burnout and/or ruin)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that the last portion of your user name is correct.

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

IM NOT ALONE!!!!!!

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartat
 

very true indeed :/

Re: AA in BB,8 limpers & I didn\'t raise. My buddy almost had a heartattack
 

[ QUOTE ]
IM NOT ALONE!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

you are correct.

nobel prize winners of 2004 in economics proved the reason for the fairlure in the theory of traditional economics is that it depends on an assumption: rational thinkers.

this study/paper proved that people do not think rationally. it was conducted by asking a randomly sampled group in london a series of probabilistically based questions...so few got it right it was astounding.

you, indeed, are FAR from alone. you will always have your non-rational (read: mathematically/statistically challanged) cohorts to keep you company

EDIT: you can all meet in your "I H8 EV" party in wisconsin b/c you can't afford a room in vegas...

Barron