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- Small Stakes Shorthanded (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

- - Coached hand... (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=351319)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, SB caps, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

I have a good tight image late in the session. Villian is loose passive preflop and a little passive postflop. My coach didn't like it. I don't know if I like it.

Krishan - 117

Re: Coached hand...

coach wants a river fold? Or does he want a flop call.

Re: Coached hand...

I like it. Which postflop street don't you/you're coach like an why? There are TONS of draws that will cap this flop, and then they have top pair + the draw and you dont raise the turn, they value bet the river. seems standard.

WOAH. missed preflop somehow, now i dont like it. I'm gonna try to think of a better line.

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. Which postflop street don't you/you're coach like an why? There are TONS of draws that will cap this flop, and then they have top pair + the draw and you dont raise the turn, they value bet the river. seems standard.

WOAH. missed preflop somehow, now i dont like it. I'm gonna try to think of a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

River fold. It's at least partly read based which makes it tough to comment on for you guys.

Krishan

Re: Coached hand...

Yeah a river fold is probably in order. The one thing i am confident about is that it's close enough not to make a huge difference, but i think i lean towards folding.

Re: Coached hand...

krishanleong,

Preflop: yeah

Flop: What does raising this flop accomplish? I know you didn't think button was going to fold and I doubt you have an equity edge on the flop. Considering I'm seeing the turn regardless of the action I like calling the flop and (hopefully) seeing a cheaper turn.

Turn: yeah

River: I find a fold against this opponent especially considering I'm not last to act.

___1___

Re: Coached hand...

I suggest a flop call and hope you can raise the turn and not put in any more. Pretty vain hope, though.

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah a river fold is probably in order. The one thing i am confident about is that it's close enough not to make a huge difference, but i think i lean towards folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this.

-blake

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest a flop call and hope you can raise the turn and not put in any more. Pretty vain hope, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

raise the turn fold to a 3bet no good since hero has a gutshot in a massive pot. plus a jack might be good

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest a flop call and hope you can raise the turn and not put in any more. Pretty vain hope, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sick. A turn raise is spewing.

I'm looking for a turn fold, but it's impossible to find getting 14.5:1 with 4 probable outs. I'm not really counting on the 8s or Js. Discounting those outs should offset the times we lose to QJs when an 8 comes and the times we lose to 88 when a jack comes.

Fold the river getting 16.5 to 1? Dunno about that. I've seen some strange things happen in big pots, and I'm sure your coach has too.

Without any major reads besides "slightly passive", I think I play the hand the same way you did and expect to lose it 90% of the time. But, at 16.5:1 a river call is +EV.

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
QJs when an 8 comes and the times we lose to 88 when a jack comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

these hands are not very likely at all.

Re: Coached hand...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QJs when an 8 comes and the times we lose to 88 when a jack comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

these hands are not very likely at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I am reaching a little with those; trying not to be too generous with our outs on the turn.

Re: Coached hand...

I always hate when this happens preflop and flop.

I don't see what you can do about it. I think the chance of 88, two big spades, or insanity makes the river call reasonable at 16-1. You didn't describe the second villain and that is a big omission.

I recently bagged a huge 3-way pot very similar to this by overcalling with an overpair that "obviously" had no chance of winning. In retrospect the bettor had suffered a breakdown and the caller (AK unimproved) apparently knew it or respected the pot size. Folding overpairs for one bet in 16 BB pots may occasionally be correct but it is not the key to happiness. Things that make no sense happen more often than we give them credit for.