AA vs. all in on the flop
 

i have 2.5k villian has me covered. haven't seen much from him but seems to be a tight player who opens for a standard amount between 70 and 80 when he opens.

im directly to his right and cold call his 70 opener with AA, a few more soles come a long for the ride and its 5 way to the flop w/ 1 blind.

flop is 9c6d3s checked to opener who betspot, i make it 900, folded back around to him he pushes.

action?, what does villian have here?

Barron

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

given that you slowplayed preflop you got the perfect flop to stack his QQ/KK, so do it. i´d reraise preflop almost always though, given how likely it is for someone to outflop you for 3.5BB. if he has a set and actually played it like this, good for him, but given the dry board he will have QQ/KK 90% of the time here.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

insta call, overpair.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

The combination of your PF and flop play is not good.

As played, I fold. I doubt a tight player does this w/ a smaller overpair and you're a big enough dog to his range of draws and sets that you aren't getting the right price.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

Either a set of nines or an over pair. He can't figure you for Aces since no reraise. Since you coldcalled for deception purposes, and this guy has no idea you have aces, this is just the situation you're looking for. If he's got the set of nines, that's just crummy luck. A large reraise preflop might have driven 9-9 out of the hand, but hey, that's what you risk when you don't reraise preflop.
Anyways, I don't know what to think about the 9-9. His pot bet could mean anything. There are 2 possible open-ended straight draws, so giving free cards would be a disaster for him, especially with 4 other people in the pot, which is what he'd do with an overpair as well as a set. He has no reason to believe you have anything larger than top pair, so him pushing with an overpair could make sense. It's tough, but seems to me like you gotta pay him off if you're beat.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
given that you slowplayed preflop you got the perfect flop to stack his QQ/KK, so do it. i´d reraise preflop almost always though, given how likely it is for someone to outflop you for 3.5BB. if he has a set and actually played it like this, good for him, but given the dry board he will have QQ/KK 90% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you guys must play against much different tight players than I do. I almost never see KK/QQ here.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

i can´t tell you how many times i´ve seen the nittiest of the nits go broke with any overpair on dry boards... like they constantly decide someone is trying to make a play at them because they are tight (in villain´s eyes, wtf would hero raise with here? a oesd? tt-qq? doesn´t seem like he´d raise a set, right?) and thus just push with an overpair. like i said if he reallllllly bet full pot with top set (and if he open raised 66, he ain´t tight folks... nor 99 really) then i´ll pay him off this time but when you call AA preflop instead of reraising this is the exact situation you´re looking for and to not get all your chips in the pot would be a crime.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
insta call, overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeaaaaaaa...KK commits here?

-Barron

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

Yeah, duck pretty much nailed. She has less of a life than me, so from now on I'm just going to reply with one sentence to threads and expect her to write anywhere from a paragraph to 2 pages on the reasoning.

RESULTS...
 

in case you hadn't guessed, i didn't have AA. i was the original raiser,

and i play bad [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] (87ss)

i figured, WORST case scenario, if this guy DOES have AA, thats one hell of a call (i.e. its an easy ass call w/ the set,2pair)....i mean he did cold call right behind me. so it looked like TT-AA, 99/66/33, A9s (if he plays bad),96s if he's feelin his oats...

Barron

PS- if i DID have AA, we likely wouldn't have seen a flop b/c i would have made it much large for 87ss to call OOP and 87ss would have likely folded.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

Yeah, I understand your points. At the 400 and 600, many tighties used to do dumb [censored] like that all the time, but I haven't seen this happen since moving up to the 1k and 2k games. Maybe I haven't been there long enough.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, duck pretty much nailed. She has less of a life than me, so from now on I'm just going to reply with one sentence to threads and expect her to write anywhere from a paragraph to 2 pages on the reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

come again?

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

As usual the duck has pretty much nailed this. As you can see AA has to make this call because there are soooo many times this play is made by KK/QQ, or someone just trying to take the pot down. I rarely see this type of re-raise without AA or a set.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

Newsflash: Duck is 100% WOMAN.

Re: RESULTS...
 

Haha, nh, assuming the raiser has typical opening standards it's really not a hard call with AA, it's like a really really easy call.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Haha, nh, assuming the raiser has typical opening standards it's really not a hard call with AA, it's like a really really easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i suck....thought WAYYYYYYY more likely he had TT-QQ b/c 99/66/33 would likely wait for turn or try to get a call or two behind....oh well, live and learn

Barron

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
PS- if i DID have AA, we likely wouldn't have seen a flop b/c i would have made it much large for 87ss to call OOP and 87ss would have likely folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

He opens for 70 you make it what? 225? Most people make it something like 200, I probably call with 2500 behind and 78s...

Re: RESULTS...
 

I don't know if it's a "really really easy" call. I mean, if it's over $2000 to you to call with your pocket aces, and you've played NL holdem long enough to see some crazy [censored], you'll be thinking long and hard. Not saying I wouldn't make the call, but when all your money's at stake nothing's a really really easy call unless you've got the nuts.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it's a "really really easy" call. I mean, if it's over $2000 to you to call with your pocket aces, and you've played NL holdem long enough to see some crazy [censored], you'll be thinking long and hard. Not saying I wouldn't make the call, but when all your money's at stake nothing's a really really easy call unless you've got the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, all things being equal (i.e. the opener isn't a tricky aggro that opens with a wide range of hands and has no problem 3-betting all in with his gut) this is a really easy call. Be careful of the sentiments you echo in the 2nd half of your response. You'd be suprised how much money you are missing out on with this kind of logic.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, duck pretty much nailed. She has less of a life than me, so from now on I'm just going to reply with one sentence to threads and expect her to write anywhere from a paragraph to 2 pages on the reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa hello? PIX PLZ!!%!%!%!!!#%

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

http://elisha-cuthbert.fantribute.co.../image0008.jpg

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

lol. try this instead.

pics

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

or that...

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Newsflash: Duck is 100% WOMAN.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm about 25% woman. I need to find a 75% woman, and then it will be a match made in heaven. Any takers?

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

i think you both played it good.
v unlikely for someone to lay down AA here, but you put him to the test and hope he has TT...

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

pocket nines or KK, QQ, call here.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
pocket nines ... call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

really?

you really think the nuts calls on this board. ??

Barron

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
i have 2.5k villian has me covered.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a tight player who opens for a standard amount between 70 and 80 when he opens.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im directly to his right and cold call his 70 opener with AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Sick.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
so it looked like TT-AA, 99/66/33, A9s (if he plays bad),96s if he's feelin his oats...

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about that hand range as you read the following.

Overall, I think your play is not HORRIBLE, but it's pretty bad. Think about what his range of hands is when he makes it 900. Now, after you call, there is 2150 in the pot. You now raise it 1600. So, he is calling 1600 to win 3700 and a lot of the time he has a very good hand. That doesn't sound like a good spot, does it?

Re: RESULTS...
 

Oh, and as others have said, getting those odds, AA is an easy insta-call here, as is KK. QQ is borderline, JJ/TT I would fold.

Re: RESULTS...
 

In a vacuum this pretty much sucks, but if you play this game a lot, a few grand is a small price to pay for the image you just established.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and as others have said, getting those odds, AA is an easy insta-call here, as is KK. QQ is borderline, JJ/TT I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]


el d. if you raise the flop w/ TT or JJ, and villain flat calls, are we not putting-another-penny-into-the-pot-unless-we-set, pushing the turn if checked, or checking turn and calling rest of stack on river?

I feel like if you're going to flop raise here with TT or JJ you better be calling an all in, or else you're wasting TT/JJ. (And flat calling is better then raising)

*I mean wasting by killing the relative value of your hand, because there arent enough draws (not to mention TT has 2 blockers to the "most obvious draw") and surely you dont expect villain to go broke with A9 or worse. And in terms of bluffing, only hand you may get out is similar overpair.

Re: RESULTS...
 

Cop-out answer, but the truth. I really don't have a default play here. Medium-ish overpair v. PFR is something that I play very differently each time based on the opponent and situation.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cop-out answer, but the truth. I really don't have a default play here. Medium-ish overpair v. PFR is something that I play very differently each time based on the opponent and situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] time for class, thanks tho.

Re: RESULTS...
 

[ QUOTE ]
In a vacuum this pretty much sucks, but if you play this game a lot, a few grand is a small price to pay for the image you just established.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but i like these image plays a hell of a lot better in sh'd games. in full (online) games it pays off much less.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

If you are routinely opening in early position with hands like 87s and 33 I think villain's smoothcall suuucks.

Also, the way villain played it, I would expect to be up against a hand stronger than AA a significant percentage of the time.

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are routinely opening in early position with hands like 87s and 33 I think villain's smoothcall suuucks.

Also, the way villain played it, I would expect to be up against a hand stronger than AA a significant percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i play pretty tight.but i dont routinely do anything...except raise..its the hands in that range that move around.

Barron

Re: AA vs. all in on the flop
 

Call. I think his most likely hand is an overpair, followed closely by a set. An OESD is possible if he is very aggressive, but it is unlikely that a tight player would open 87s or 54s with five players or more left to act.