Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

There used to be a time when I posted a lot of hands, and I tried to tell neat little stories with them. Then I played in a home game with Andy Fox, and I valuebet bottompairbottomkicker on the river, and proudly announced my hand at showdown. And Andy chuckled heartily and often brought that up. Well, this one was more neater, to me anyways.

I'm playing 25-50, and all fold to me in the SB. Everybody I play with knows that I don't chop, but the lad in the BB didn't know me. I raised w/ J9, and he reached for his BB, to put it back in his stack.

I told him I never chopped, and he begrudgingly looked at his hand, and called with less than enthusiasm. I put him on a pretty bad hand, because he was aggressive and would threebet a lot of holdings here.

Flop came T75, rainbow, and I bet out with my gutshot. He called, somewhat quickly. Hmmm...

Turn was a 2. I checked, and he checked. I really felt that he had no pair here, and quite likely had a straight draw.

I thought that the best non-8 for my hand would be for the board to pair on the river. It did, with a 5. I check, he bet, and I insta-called.

He says "nice hand, I missed". I tabled my hand and proudly announced "Nut Jack high", thinking he may very easily have J8, and I didn't wanna slowroll and just announce jack-high.

He flashed my 98, shakes his head in disbelief, and says nice hand.

Ahh, the good ol' days when poker made sense...

Josh

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

Brings a tear to my eye.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

Uh oh. Don't read my other recent post then. At least not without buying stock in Kleenex first.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

This is an awesome post. Nice hand Josh.
-James

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

I really liked the thought about the board pairing.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

thanks a lot josh, now im not the only one to call a jack high winner in that casino.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

your thinking on the river is super solid as others pointed out and i was capitivated right up to the part where you.... called?

just checkraise the guy josh!

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

Bah.

He checks ace high on the river. He calls with a pair on the river if I checkraise.

So, the only hope checkraising the river has is IF he bets a K or Q high and mucks to a raise. The thing is, if he has two overcards to the flop, he probably 3-bets preflop. If he only has one non-ace overcard to the flop, he probably folds on the flop. As such, I don't think he has K or Q high. I also don't think he flopped a pair, as I think he'd raise the flop. This is why I put him on a straight draw.

All in all, I don't see any value in checkraising the river.

That, and there's a certain value in showing that you'll correctly call down with Jack high.

You sir, are a yutz.

Josh

p.s. I don't know what a yutz is. But it sounds good.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

[ QUOTE ]

That, and there's a certain value in showing that you'll correctly call down with Jack high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I think this is a big reason not to CR. That guy is not gonna try to bluff you again. And anyone else who was paying attention probably won't either.

I agree with pretty much everything else in your post as well.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

nice hand sir.

Wow, thanks.
 

A post "just because" of me. I'm honored. Truly. Usually I get a bit frightened when I see my name in a post title, but this one was an exception.

Great thinking on the turn and river, as ever.

BTW, a yutz is Yiddush for, basically, a ditz, clutz, dumkoft, ninny, nincompoop, socially incompetant boob, twit, or dumbass. First time I've seen it used in the same sentence with the word "sir."

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

Nice post. I wonder what kind of image you are looking for after making this call. I'm thinking that your best response to his "I missed" was to turn over your cards dejectedly and say "yeah I missed too, just wanted to see what you had", and then look surprised as they push you the pot.

Now you've given off the image of an uber-calling-moron, which of course couldn't be farther from the truth, not to mention the tilt-inducing I-can't-belive-he-just-called-to-see-and-won, oh-my-god-that-pot-was-mine response you should get out of your opponent (of course, you get some of this anyways).

Anyways, nice hand.

-Eric

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

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Ahh, the good ol' days when poker made sense...

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My favorite line. Nice hand, and nice post.

Rob

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

My friends know that I've had a man crush on Jeff W 'cause of his strat posts and have taken to referring to him as my "Poker God".

I'm kinda sad about the not chopping thing, but the rest of this rules so damn hard.

It reminds me of some line from the "funniest lines heard at the table" thread.

"Jack High"

"What's your kicker"

"Eight"

"It's Good"

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

[ QUOTE ]
My friends know that I've had a man crush on Jeff W 'cause of his strat posts and have taken to referring to him as my "Poker God".

I'm kinda sad about the not chopping thing, but the rest of this rules so damn hard.

It reminds me of some line from the "funniest lines heard at the table" thread.

"Jack High"

"What's your kicker"

"Eight"

"It's Good"

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean Jeff W or Josh W? Josh W recently got really confused. If your mancrush is on me, um thanks. But if it's on Jeff (who's posting more than me these days), well, go screw yourself. Kidding, kidding. But seriously, it's nice to hear, and if it's on Jeff, you should let him know.

[regarding chopping...i chopped for years, but then i saw too often the "i chop, i chop, i chop, i chop, oooh, i have a big hand, so i don't chop" behaviour, so I stopped. Just easier this way]

jOSH w

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

I do mean Jeff W.

Christ, I had no idea there were two of you, now I've got to go back and re-read everything over the past like 4 months to see what the hell is going on.

The story was good enough that I can elevate you to some kinda poker demi-god of storytelling status.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

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Now you've given off the image of an uber-calling-moron...


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the entire point of how Josh tabled his hand was to convey the exact opposite.

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now you've given off the image of an uber-calling-moron...


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the entire point of how Josh tabled his hand was to convey the exact opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. That's the point I'm trying to make. I wonder if "this guy is an idiot calling station" is more profitable than "this guy can really play". After all, "this guy can really play" is an accurate image, while "this guy sucks" is totally wrong. Wouldn't we want our image to be different than the way we actually play? If our opponents think one way and we play another, we may create some profitable opportunities.

-Eric

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now you've given off the image of an uber-calling-moron...


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the entire point of how Josh tabled his hand was to convey the exact opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. That's the point I'm trying to make. I wonder if "this guy is an idiot calling station" is more profitable than "this guy can really play". After all, "this guy can really play" is an accurate image, while "this guy sucks" is totally wrong. Wouldn't we want our image to be different than the way we actually play? If our opponents think one way and we play another, we may create some profitable opportunities.

-Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not what they think that's important, it's how they play.

If they think "wow, he's really good", that means nothing. If it leads my opponent to then think "I need to play perfectly to win", and he goes out and does it, obviously that was a bad image to convey to him, as it elevated his game.

However, if his initial thought is followed up with "I don't wanna play any pots with him", then it's a profitable image to convey.

Conversely, if they think "wow, he's an uber-calling station", and it leads them to make very thin value bets on the river (with all ace highs, maybe some king highs, etc), then I'll be put in a tricky spot, because I'll have to start making marginal river calls. however if it makes them think "I shoulnd't bet unless i have a really good hand, cuz he's gonna call everything", then it's helpful for me to have this image.

Succinctly, it's not the image you portray that matters. It's what your image makes your opponents do that matters.

Josh

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I tabled my hand and proudly announced "Nut Jack high", thinking he may very easily have J8, and I didn't wanna slowroll and just announce jack-high.

He flashed my 98, shakes his head in disbelief, and says nice hand.

Ahh, the good ol' days when poker made sense...

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]



NH.

And quite a nice post.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Great poker. Great post. n/m
 

n/m

Re: Just because I think Andy will like this one....
 

Wow is that a nice hand.