Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Greetings from the very good NoCal live mid-limit games. I had been playing an hour or so and was down a rack when the following hand came up.
UTG (a weak/tight regular, a rarity in these games) raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 MP player calls, cutoff (who is a MAJOR fish, probably something like 75/8/1) calls, SB calls and I call in BB with:
7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Flop comes 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Cutoff Fish raises, SB folds, I call, the UTG+1 calls.
Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, UTG+1 checks, Fish bets, I raise, only Fish calls.
River is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I bet...
Comments on all postflop streets appreciated.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

I like it. I am trying to find somewhere to say, "well, on this street, this is another option" but the only thing I see is maybe check the river, but I think its a good value bet.


-blake

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

This is what i think:
The flop play is just standard/good. Only thing that is not good is that the fish is raising, whenever a fish raises he has got a hand and is under no circumstances folding.

However i like your turn raise, because you got MAYOR outs. The river play is horrible, just save your money and check-fold. Fish is NOT folding,
greetz, dutchsmoke

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

I would've 3-bet the flop in the hopes of getting rid of the UTG+1...and then led out on the turn. I think if you're expecting the fish to fold on the river for one bet, you have to have played this hand more aggressively.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

I think you have to check/fold the river unless you've seen the fish raise with crazy inside straight draws or bottom pair.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Hi all,
I believe the flop play was the worst of all the streets. I didn't 3-bet because I was planning on C/R ANY turn card (I was stuck and annoyed and apparenty that means I make ego plays). Given that I made that line, I'm surprised that so many posters think I should check/fold the river. At the time, and to some extent still, I felt the only play is to bet the river--perhaps as a bluff and perhaps as a value bet.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

should go check check on river

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Check and call flop. You don't want AA, KK, QQ to raise...all likely hands for a weak tight UTG. Your hand is not strong enough to withstand a lot of action and there is a good chance you are not ahead.

Check and call turn. If you want to semibluff, I prefer betting. I don't know many fish who, after raising the flop and betting the turn, fold to a CR. Also, I think you want UTG+1 to call here.

River I think is close....check and call or check and fold...all depends on your read of this player. I don't know what hands you have beat here.

I think the above gets you more when you hit, and saves you money when you miss. A pair of 7's with a 6 kicker on the flop is not likely to win unimproved in a multiway pot.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Your hand is not strong enough to withstand a lot of action


pokenum -h kd ks - - 7c 6c -- 7s 5d 3c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 3c 5d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kd 608 61.41 370 37.37 12 1.21 0.620
7c 6c 370 37.37 608 61.41 12 1.21 0.380

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

If you don't know why you're betting the river then I think you need to re-evaluate that decision. You're certainly not bluffing him off a hand that is better than yours.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

3bet flop and lead turn.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Why not cr flop, lead turn, check call river?

Value bet will work if you are sure he thinks you are on tilt.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

very nice hand except for river.

you bet hoping that UTG raises to protect your hand on the flop.

then you notice fish raising, so you hope to c/r to protect your hand on the turn.

then you bet for value, EXCEPT what hands is the fish going to call you with that you beat? I think I check/call river. you'll be in a nasty spot if he raises river

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

"what hands is the fish going to call you with that you beat?"
It usually doesn't take much to inspire a fish to call on the river with any hand--even A4 and the like. I think what's more important is if fish ever has something we beat in this spot. Some fish never bet the turn without top pair or better. I didn't think this was the case with this fish--or I was on tilt.

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Hi MitchL,
I like your suggestions on all the streets except the river. After playing my hand so strongly on the flop and turn, as you suggested, why would I all of a sudden stop on the river? I think this lets fish check behind with all hands I beat and bet with most of the hands I cant beat...which means calling his river bet may not be +ev. That's why I elected to bet since I was determined to showdown (unless raised). It's interesting that so many smart posters here have disagreed on the correct line here. Any other posters wish to try?

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

Sorry I was a little confused I thought your decription of villian was weak tight. That was referring to original raiser. Since villain is a typical fish, I think you can bet since you would check call anyway and defeat his chances to check behind with A high, or smaller pair. What do you do if he raises river?

Re: Tilt, Brilliant, or Boring?
 

fold. BTW-fish called river and turned over K4 so mhing.