This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

I hate Paradise.

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Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG (MP1)calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB (Button)completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG (MP1)calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB (Button)calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
Button checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (11 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Button checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Am I just being stupid, or are there too many Buttons in your hand? Can't follow the action.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Is this a standard preflop raise for you?

Post flop: where's the confusing part?

Edit: SB (Button???) could have K5 here and on the river realized that he's losing to almost any other K. I still probably check the river.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

sooooo....thats alot of buttons.....

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard preflop raise for you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Its standard when going by the tight chart from SSH

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard preflop raise for you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Its standard when going by the tight chart from SSH

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that after I posted. I raise KJs here, but haven't been raising KTs -- guess I'll start.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Apparantly, you have position on the bottom. Please teach me this play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apparantly, you have position on the bottom. Please teach me this play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer my position be on the bottom. I'm not a big fan of being on top.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparantly, you have position on the bottom. Please teach me this play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer my position be on the bottom. I'm not a big fan of being on top.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does your boyfriend feel about this? jk

I play this hand the same way, aside from the preflop raise. Still not able to do this...

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

It'd be easier to give advice if the action you posted wasn't messed up. Since the button folded to his own turn bet, I think you're supposed to win it right there.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard preflop raise for you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Its standard when going by the tight chart from SSH

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that after I posted. I raise KJs here, but haven't been raising KTs -- guess I'll start.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is highly siutational.. I mean, you should either see a lot of bad limpers ahead of you, or you should sense weakness.

The button's call/complete looked a little odd in this hand, so I took it as a sign that I should be raising in this circumstance.

Edit: Just to give a further example, if the button were to raise/self-three-bet, this would be an easy fold.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

I'd probably raise his turn bet. He may well be betting into a strong flush draw, which you are now a big favourite over, or two pair which you may have counterfitted, or an open straight draw. If he three bets you might have to fold.

A 3rd bet on the flop may have protected your hand more, asking the button to call 2 bets cold. There is a good chance you have the best hand, but are vulnerable. As the raiser is on your right you are in the ideal position for this.

Just a thought.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Confuses the hell out of me, too. Who is who?

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB (Button)completes

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I see that you renamed SB "Button". You also renamed UTG "MP1". What were you guys doing, playing in a star pattern across the table? "I think you're just trying to confuse me, hoping that I'll give something away...it won't work."

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I hate Paradise.

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This seems oxymoronic, but if you're talking about Paradise Poker, I agree. You had 6 people to the flop! What'd this hand take, 8 minutes to play?

As to the hand, seems likely you lost to a better king who was overly-afraid of a spade flush. Either that, or he had the spade flush and was being ridiculously tricky, thinking he could induce a bluff, on the river. (Actually, given the flop action, I'd say the latter was more likely...either that, or a busted gutshot with AJ.)

Edited for poor typing.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB (Button)completes

[/ QUOTE ]

I see that you renamed SB "Button". You also renamed UTG "MP1". What were you guys doing, playing in a star pattern across the table? "I think you're just trying to confuse me, hoping that I'll give something away...it won't work."

[ QUOTE ]
I hate Paradise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems oxymoronic, but if you're talking about Paradise Poker, I agree. You had 6 people to the flop! What'd this hand take, 8 minutes to play?

As to the hand, seems likely you lost to a better king who was overly-afraid of a spade flush. Either that, or he had the spade flush and was being ridiculously tricky, thinking he could induce a bluff, on the river. (Actually, given the flop action, I'd say the latter was more likely...either that, or a busted gutshot with AJ.)

Edited for poor typing.

[/ QUOTE ]

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A few things...

1) This was at paradise poker, on their new client software. It was actually a star-shaped table. It's called Star Holdem and it's at the top of the Holdem Section. So far they only have two tables running, though. Confusing as hell... I think some of the professional edge in that came comes from getting completely high before playing: it seems to make things easier. As an aside, suicide rates are much lower among the intoxicated players than the sober players, in this format.

2) Sorry to the guys that replied to this hand seriously, as it was a joke-post. But thank you, and I will be pleased to discuss the hand.

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A note about paradise's 2/4 game: 6 players to a flop is pretty sweet, but I'm not sure if it's typical of this limit, this time of the day, and this site... It could be, but I'd doubt it. I normally play at higher limits on Paradise for some reason, though, so I don't have much experience at their 2/4 game. They seem to be about 5% more players to the flop than the 3/6 and 5/10 though, just from what I remember by looking at the lobby. I'd really doubt it if there were 6-ways to the flop on average...

As for the hand itself (and it hurts just looking at this hand in its present form, btw):

PF: This raise is pretty suspect. I'm pretty sure that these were some very bad players, as I wouldn't have done it if there were a majority of fairly good players were in the hand, but I would have done it with something like JTs if some very decent players were in the hand.

Flop: Perhaps I should have checkraised? My hand is pretty weak, but I don't really have any useful redraws and I'm not trying to clear up many outs -- i.e. Maybe I'm trying to clear up T's, but that's a little doubtful.

When the SB checkraises the flop, which is an atypical play for this limit, generally indicating a strong hand, I don't think I'm profited by three-betting.

Turn/River: Once I get checkraised on the flop I'm just going for a showdown. I'm not sure what's going through villain's mind at this point in the hand, maybe he thinks I have a Q and I'm afraid of him. Maybe he thinks that I'm going for a raise somewhere with a Q and I've waited to the river because I'm "tricky". Maybe he thinks I have spades...

One thing, though, is that it's kind of unfair to put up the turn and river action and ask for unbiased opinions on the flop.

Any comments on this (rather weak) line of thinking?

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard preflop raise for you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Its standard when going by the tight chart from SSH

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that this raise is not on the SSH charts.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that this raise is not on the SSH charts.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the blinds? Only in Star Holdem.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Confuses me too. Only thing I can figure is that the SB's username is "Button", and somehow this got translated into the hand history and post.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

I don't see in SSHE that KTs is a standard raising hand from any position, loose or tight notwithstanding.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

raise KJs from BB according to the "tight" tab of this spreadsheet 'based on SSH' and linked to in the "Microlimits Guideline" post. Handy chart.
However, pg. 81 of SSH says call KTs against a raise in BB, raise it from late. This must be where the confusion is from.
Personally, it's a situational thing for me, prob raise slightly less than half the time.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

Aye, I did get my info from that excel chart.

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

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PF: This raise is pretty suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't kid yourself. This is an easy raise.

I'd probably raise the turn but your action is messed up and you don't provide any reads, which would be nice.

Bet the river.

Rob

Re: This hand confused the living hell out of me
 

PREFLOP: Your hand is not strong enough to raise in the Blinds.

FLOP: Check. Your kicker is weak. You may get raised by a better hand. The pot is bloated by the preflop raise and you can't protect your hand by betting out anyway.

T/R: Check and Check, yep.