Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I was wondering what you guys think about this book. I found it in my local B&N store, but barely had time to look through it. Did anyone start/finish reading it? Is it good for NL cash games? Thanks in advance...

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I ordered it Sept. 26 and received it Sept. 29 from Amazon ($18.27). I'm 51/286 pages into it and already I like it VERY much. His discussion of small blind and big blind play has been very helpful to me because play in the blinds is my greatest weakness.

It's useful for both cash games and tournaments. It doesn't offer sample hand analysis like Harrington's books or cover topics in chapter format. Instead, it's patterned after the Little Red Book by golf teacher Harvey Penick in that it covers a topic in four paragraphs or so.

He has starting hand charts in the back of the book for full and shorthanded tables.

Overall, I think it's excellent and well worth the price.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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I was wondering what you guys think about this book.

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I think it's quite good. A full review of it by me will be forthcoming in some publication in the next few weeks.

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Is it good for NL cash games?

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It focuses on tournaments, but a majority of the advice can be applied toward cash games as well.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Is this book geared toward limit, no-limit, or both?

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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Is this book geared toward limit, no-limit, or both?

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no-limit

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

exclusively no limit. Phil drives a Cadillac babeee!

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

This is damn fine book. I'm very impressed from what I've read so far.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is damn fine book. I'm very impressed from what I've read so far.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you guys please elaborate more on what makes the book so impressive? I'm very interested in picking this book up but would like to have some more information on what makes it so good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I flipped through it in the bookstore yesterday. It is a collection of poker ideas/thoughts/lessons - one per page or so. Set up in the same way as Harvey Penick's lessons on golf.
What makes it good is it gets you thinking about specific poker ideas on an individual basis. You can probably read them in any order. I will be buying it.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

How does it compare to harrington on hold'em? Is phil's book good for players who play cash as well as tourny's? i think that question was answered b4 but w/e. Ive Just read GSHE, should i read phil's book or HOH?

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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How does it compare to harrington on hold'em?

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They are different but both good.

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Is phil's book good for players who play cash as well as tourny's? i think that question was answered b4 but w/e.

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Yes, this question has been answered.

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Ive Just read GSHE, should i read phil's book or HOH?

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My recommendation is both. I don't have a strong recommendation as to which to read first.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

thanx npc

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I concur.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is damn fine book. I'm very impressed from what I've read so far.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you guys please elaborate more on what makes the book so impressive? I'm very interested in picking this book up but would like to have some more information on what makes it so good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I already gave my take explaining why I thought it was good and describing it a bit so it's a little annoying that you're acting like I didn't.

Here's an idea. Ask for something specific about the book, VERY specific and then perhaps it would be more easier to give you what you want, which is obviously VERY specific. I promise to tell you what want to know if you can explain what that is.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

i wasn't the original asker of question...

but are the charts in the back for no-limit only (i.e. have to watch position even more closely)???

wanted to ask if the book is only no-limit... i know you guys said it was focussed on no-limit, but i wonder if it's worthwhile for someone who only plays limit (i know the games have alot of similarities no matter how you look at it).

sounds like an excellent book... and a guy i know who claims to have 100 books (he has alot of books i've barely or never heard of) hadn't heard of this book, so it might be an overlooked gem.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Your friend may not have heard of this book because it just came out. The official release date isn't until tommorow, however, some stores apparently got it last week.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

[/ QUOTE ]
Does Phil's book cover anything that wasn't covered in the Harrington on Hold'em series? Can you possibly give a list of topics he discusses that you thought were very insightful and why? I already purchased a copy of Phil's first book, Poker: The Real Deal, a while back and was very dissapointed, thus my hesitation to go out and purchase this book before reading some more reviews. Thank you benkahuna. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

[/ QUOTE ]
Does Phil's book cover anything that wasn't covered in the Harrington on Hold'em series? Can you possibly give a list of topics he discusses that you thought were very insightful and why? I already purchased a copy of Phil's first book, Poker: The Real Deal, a while back and was very dissapointed, thus my hesitation to go out and purchase this book before reading some more reviews. Thank you benkahuna. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm about 75% through the new book (didn't read his first one) and it is pretty good. I may write a review when I am done. It is all about NLHE, mainly tournaments but some ring game stuff too. Basically he describes his system and thought process on NL, and it seems pretty solid.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

[/ QUOTE ]
Does Phil's book cover anything that wasn't covered in the Harrington on Hold'em series? Can you possibly give a list of topics he discusses that you thought were very insightful and why? I already purchased a copy of Phil's first book, Poker: The Real Deal, a while back and was very dissapointed, thus my hesitation to go out and purchase this book before reading some more reviews. Thank you benkahuna. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think P:TRD was written more from a push by Bravo than Phil himself. It's obviously more of an all-around poker primer, I assume the intended audience was the Celebrity Poker Showdown viewers.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Just got it and was flipping throught the player profiles. Interesting he says Prahlad plays essentially a perfect unbeatable no limit cash game employing game theory. Only downside is the high variance. He names him "Biggest Online Winner" but a few sentences later say he saps the very spirit of the rocks in the game.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Phil Gordon said somewhere that he sizes continuation bets in NLH tournaments in accordance with the strength of his hand. He bets .5 pot when he has a strong hand and wants action, .75 pot when he has a mediocre hand and doesn't mind action and he bets the pot when his hand is weak and he wants to bet and get his opponents to fold.

Hmmm...interesting but not very smart.

Vince

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

He was ESPN's "Cold Pizza" yesterday morning talking about the book. He says its exactly how he plays nl hold'em in most situations. He was pretty humble, but made the book sound impressive.

"I'm certainly not the best nl hold'em players in the world, but i've made 6 wsop final tables, 2 wpt final tables, and i've won nearly $1.2 Million playing. There are definitely players out there who are better than me, but I have done pretty well for myself."

For now, it looks like this book and Hoh are the best for nl tourneys.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
Phil Gordon said somewhere that he sizes continuation bets in NLH tournaments in accordance with the strength of his hand. He bets .5 pot when he has a strong hand and wants action, .75 pot when he has a mediocre hand and doesn't mind action and he bets the pot when his hand is weak and he wants to bet and get his opponents to fold.

Hmmm...interesting but not very smart.

Vince

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I haven't read this book, but this type of play is far from exclusive to Phil Gordon. This is the way plenty of good players bet, but it is quite easy to read if you play this way all the time and make it obvious youre on a steal by betting the pot...
Otherwise it makes sense so long as you vary your play

Do you guys think the way Phil has these ideas presented that it is easy to remember and integrate his style into your own game? Do you guys tend to prefer specific hand analysis over general concepts?

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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he saps the very spirit of the rocks in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that as well, and felt very proud that I was cool enough to understand the secret clue.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I prefer general concepts to specific hand analysis. General concepts allow for a player to develop his own style.

Vince

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Hands are often used to illustrate certain concepts. They're not just in a vacuum. But I know what you mean.

I like them both. I remember concepts much better with examples/explanation.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

One problem with hand analyses is that they are boringly repetitive. Another is that all hands can be played in different ways, ie. Sklansky's statement that you "can't misplay Aces before the flop".(folding is an absurdity except is some specific tournament situations and even then... so we won't mention folding). The point is that yes examples are valuable but when presenting a general concept usually a simple example will get the point accross. Plus Tommy Angelo is the only one besides Mason and David that always gets the right answer. Maybe Rick Nebiolo...

Vince

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
Phil Gordon said somewhere that he sizes continuation bets in NLH tournaments in accordance with the strength of his hand. He bets .5 pot when he has a strong hand and wants action, .75 pot when he has a mediocre hand and doesn't mind action and he bets the pot when his hand is weak and he wants to bet and get his opponents to fold.

Hmmm...interesting but not very smart.

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the latest full tilt lessons was an extract from his book about this very subject. There is more to it than just the above consideration.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

On a completely unrelated but humorous note...While promoting his book on Opie & Anthony's show on XM the other day, Phil mentioned he makes money on the side betting on rock-paper-scissors (and in fact beat Anthony in a best-of-7 for $100). He must have read that thread in "Other Gambling" or wherever it was a few months back.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
...Phil mentioned he makes money on the side betting on rock-paper-scissors (and in fact beat Anthony in a best-of-7 for $100). He must have read that thread in "Other Gambling" or wherever it was a few months back.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's been playing for years.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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There is more to it than just the above consideration.

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Ok, what?

Vince

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

[/ QUOTE ]
Does Phil's book cover anything that wasn't covered in the Harrington on Hold'em series? Can you possibly give a list of topics he discusses that you thought were very insightful and why? I already purchased a copy of Phil's first book, Poker: The Real Deal, a while back and was very dissapointed, thus my hesitation to go out and purchase this book before reading some more reviews. Thank you benkahuna. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, finished the book a few days ago.

I wouldn't say Phil covered any concepts not seen in the HoH series. However, I think he covered a few concepts with greater depth. His discussion about bet sizing post flop was very good IMO. Some posters talk about it being exclusively related to his own hand's current value/drawing potential. Not so. It also incorporates his take on the other person's hand. His discussion on playing the blinds was also very useful and more extensive than HoH. Someone mentioned his obvious reference to Prahlad (I also felt kind of cool for getting that one--not cool, dorky poker obsession) and it was interesting, but unlikely to be useful for most people. There are more examples of this sort, but I'm going to say it's not only tedious to really analyze the two books, it's more than I'm willing to do to do in response to a post.

I'm not trying to sell you the book. However, I did find the book to be very solid in most respects and much better than The Real Deal (which I liked, but found a bit fluffy and more useful as a general presentation about poker). I believe it lives up to its claims on the jacket of the book. Phil presents NL in a very straightforward, yet accurate manner here. There's nothing revolutionary in his advice, but his advice is easy to follow, has internal consistency, and just makes a lot of sense.

It sounds like you're looking for something to give you groundbreaking new material and theory to help you in a cash NL game. I don't think you'll find that in this book. However, I do think you'll find new presentation about many concepts and greater depth in discussion about familiar concepts that will, if you're a discerning, critical reader improve your NL cash game despite the book starting out more generally about NL and then focusing more specifically on tournament NL holdem. If you've read a lot of poker theory and HoH (and thought about the theory, played and lot and understood what was in the books well--including TOP), then you might not need this book. But, I think there are a few topics that are not covered elsewhere that are gems or easter eggs that make book worth getting.

I should warn you though, I tend to find value in most things and am not quickly dismissive of books on poker that can give me something original.

If you're still in doubt how to deal with the publication of this work after reading my post, I strongly recommend just checking out the book in a book store if possible. If you can't and can afford the book, it's probably worth getting. If it's tough to afford the book based on your poker play, you'll probably get enough from the book that it will pay for itself.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Hi Everyone:

I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

It does have one major problem. It is horribly written. It seems like every fifth or sixth word is "I," and probably 20 percent of the words could be eliminated. I find it amazing that these major publishers don't do basic editing, and Phil Gordon, who I believe is a good guy, should be very upset about this.

So my preliminary rating would be a 6. If it was written better, because the information is there, it would get at least a 7 and perhaps an 8.

Of course, my opinion might change as I read more.

best wishes,

Mason

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

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It does have one major problem. It is horribly written.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't disagree more. Are there a ton of personal pronouns? Yes, but I didn't notice until you said something. The book reads like dialog from Phil - all grammar aside, the way it was written makes it flow quite smoothly.

The point here, and the point of the book as he states in the intro is..
[ QUOTE ]
In short, the following pages are, to the best of my ability, how I play No Limit Texas Hold'em. I'm not the best player in the world. But I'm a winning player, and I win playing exactly the style that is described here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to do without all the "I's", but are they that bothersome anyway?

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

I'd have to disagree too. I didn't notice the overuse of "I". I don't recall if Harvey Penick's Little Red Book writing style was like that, but it's obvious that Phil's intention was to impart lessons from himself. The use of "I" just makes it more personal and fitting with the style of the book. Nothing wrong with that imo. Personally, I think it's a great book that fills in a few things that I think were missing from the awesome Harrington books or at least not covered in depth.

Eric

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Everyone:

I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

It does have one major problem. It is horribly written. It seems like every fifth or sixth word is "I," and probably 20 percent of the words could be eliminated. I find it amazing that these major publishers don't do basic editing, and Phil Gordon, who I believe is a good guy, should be very upset about this.

So my preliminary rating would be a 6. If it was written better, because the information is there, it would get at least a 7 and perhaps an 8.

Of course, my opinion might change as I read more.

best wishes,

Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

He did not write the book to get an A from his English teacher. From all of the money this book will make us, we can buy all the books from Hemingway that we want.

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Ignoring any concerns about the writing style, how do you think Gordon's book compares (content-wise) to the Ciaffone/Ruben book or to Doyle's NLHE chapter in SyperSystem? I consider those books to be the best NLHE materials outside of HOHI and HOHII, so I'd be interested in your opinion about how Gordon's book stacks up to them.

(No fair comparing it to any bits of the Sklansky/Miller manuscript you've seen since their book isn't available yet.)

Re: Phil Gordon\'s Little Green Book
 

Hi maurile:

It's been so long since I read the Ciaffone/Ruben book that it would be unfair for me to make a comparison even though I gave that book a very high rating. It's also my opinion that you cannot win in a hold 'em no limit cash game with deep stacks using the no limit chapter in either Super System since Doyle has you putting all your chips in far too often, and this is the game these chapters were targeted for. Gordon't book is mainly targeted for no limit tournaments.

Best wishes,
Mason