I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Talking to my parents about poker. More specifically online poker and texas hold'em.

Oh they know I play. They even bought me SSH for Christmas last year. My father and grandfather taught me poker growing up - 5 card draw, 7 card stud, 5 card Chicago, wildcard games. And I am 37 years old. And they are retired. (Sadly my grandfather died from smoking years ago.) They watch tournament poker on television all the time and my dad plays Hoyle's computer game for fun.

To this point I have followed my father's advice from my college days. "Don't tell your mother." Well I have not told either of them very much to this point. Only that I am a winning player. The only questions they ever ask are "how much?" Funny this was the only question my mother ever asked my dad when he came home from bowling/poker night when I was a kid!?

So this past weekend I was in town visiting and they brought it up. They keep wanting to know why I don't play in tournaments. When am I going to try it? "So-and-so just won 1.4 million dollars in this one the other night." My mom even thinks she could see me on tv.

So I decide it is time to educate them. Mistake. I approached them with the ideas of avoiding risk, bankroll building and management. I talked to them about how I have played 25,000 hands of 2/4 online this year with a current winrate of 1.02bb/100. About my eventual goals of moving up and/or playing higher at the casino. My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?" He says "one bet every 100 hands! How can you stand it? I would be way too bored. That's not poker. I couldn't do that. What happens the other 99 hands?" <insert fatherly condescending tone> I had to give up relatively soon after that. I even tried explaining 2+2 and how many semi-pro players have offered me advice and are giving me a solid foundation - free of charge. It flew over their heads. I also tried explaining to my mother that I do not play NL. Sheesh. She just laughs and says "that's not much money to win for all that time. It can't be worth it." Ugh.

I am not one to bother others with my adventures, so this experience was frustrating. Perhaps typical of my relationship with my parents.

Point is it has made me appreciate 2+2 even more.

Thanks, HHH.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

My parents know the following:

I play a lot of poker; I win money playing poker; I really enjoy playing poker.

Details They Don't Need to Know: How much money I make at it, what stakes I play at, how much I could potentially win or lose on a given day, how often I play and other details that might alarm them.

They are on a need to know basis and some things they just don't need to know. For my sanity...and probably their's.

As for talking about the game and stuff, sometimes I do, but I can tell they're not that interested. So I try not to discuss it much but it can be tough when it's your primary interest.

Jeff

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]

So I decide it is time to educate them. Mistake. I approached them with the ideas of avoiding risk, bankroll building and management.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did anyone else LOL when they read this part?

I am sorry that it did not work out. I have the same issues. Whenever I visit my folks and poker comes up I just speak like a Jedi Master with phrases like "You gotta be able to lay down a good hand when you are clearly beat" or "The money I don't lose spends as well as the money I win." They smile and the conversation naturally progresses to another topic. If not, I will employ the old Jedi Mind trick of alluding to anything remotely related to my kids [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I don't ever foresee my parents having a desire to be 'educated' about poker. Parents have an instinct to act interested in anything their children are involved with (If you have kids the following will make more sense).

My daughters love to watch Lizzy McGuire and I have sat through a few episodes with them. Now if they want to have a conversation about Hillary Duff's hair, make-up, boyfriends, etc. I would have little interest in this conversation, but if they ask me to watch the show with them I will. I'm not sure if this a metaphor, an allegory or some other fancy literary term, but hopefully it conveys the message [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

You should be happy that your parents accept your job/hobby and are supportive (albiet cluelessly). Last time I went to my Mom's house there was a "So You're a Compulsive Gambler" pamphlet under my keys when I was ready to go. She didn't say anything either. Thanks, Mom.

It's funny too, since I hate all other forms of gambling and only play 1/2 and small buy-in multis and I have plenty of money. She just hears that I talk about poker all the time with my sister and thinks: "Zoinks! Gambling Addiction! Aiyaaaah!"

I love my mom, but I wish she was as charmingly ignorant as your folks.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Wow, that is harsh. I used to think I would wake up one day and be greeted to an intervention or something (when I first started) but it never happened. Your parents mean well and mine meant well at the time. For most people, getting seriously involved in poker is an error...they are going to lose a lot of money. So your parents are trying to protect you.

It took my parents a LONG time to semi-accept my playing (how is it different than roulette, etc), but they are almost there and don't ask questions anymore. They accept that I love it and do well at it and mostly leave it alone (but still try to pry financial details).

Jeff

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?" He says "one bet every 100 hands! How can you stand it? I would be way too bored. That's not poker. I couldn't do that."

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why you wouldn't be a winning player, dad.

[ QUOTE ]
What happens the other 99 hands?"

[/ QUOTE ]

The other 99 hands? Losing players, like you dad, pass around money while I wait to come in and take my cut.


[ QUOTE ]
She just laughs and says "that's not much money to win for all that time. It can't be worth it." Ugh

[/ QUOTE ]

Put it in terms of an hourly rate in comparison to a job. She doesn't know what the hell bb/100 hands is.

If you're going to approach this with parents, realize how they see the game. Put yourself in their shoes and imagine their knowledge of the game. Try and use similarities to something they can grasp or relate to rather than just throwing out theory and concepts that only people who have studied the game will really understand. Just an idea.

Even if they do understand it eventually, they will worry. But they'd be bad parents if they didn't, imo.

b

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Egocide: Dad, its not really gambling, like blackjack or roulette or something.

Egocide Sr.: What do you call the act of putting money in the pot?

Egocide: ummmm betting or calling or raising.

Egocide Sr. : Exactly! Betting is wrong! Its gambling!


Sigh.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

tdarko: lets get a family game going tonight

daddytdarko: fuckyeah gambooooooll!!!!!!! you motherfuckers are dead tonight, are we upping the buy in tonight to a hundred bucks?!?!

mind you my step brother, step sister, step mom, gf also play and they are running out of christmas, birthday and chore money. this game is a [censored] gold mine. the only competition is my gf [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. once a week my gf and i eat dinner at my dad/stepmoms place and afterwards we have this game. great times.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

My dad is concerned and thinks I will drop out of school or something to play poker full-time. And I don't even make that much money at it. My mom reassured him that I wasn't a compulsive gambler or anything. I feel no need to address it unless he asks me about it personally.

He's somewhat concerned about it, but I don't know if he's concerned about MONEY or concerned about TIME. Because it is a time-intensive hobby, and I think some people on 2+2 should keep that in mind when they complain about people hassling them about poker.

Maybe these other people just see you losing interest in going out to eat or seeing a concert or throwing a frisbee because you want to spend that time 8-tabling $2/4. Which I guess is okay if you think of it as a job, but I don't really want poker to turn into an obsession for me like it does for a lot of people, and then I get to be 50, and I realize I missed out on a bunch of really fun times in college because I wanted to work all the time.

All that said, most people who don't play poker seriously are clueless about it. But I do think self-examination is almost always good.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Hi Triple H,

Not sure if you "failed". I am not clear on what your intentions were in involving your parents, granted that she asked first. They already know you play poker a lot, they know you enjoy it, and they might even know you make a few bucks off it. So if there was some deep reason behind why you felt compelled to explain the details, don't worry about it. Jeffage is right on.

My parents asked once why I don't play tournaments, and if they can see me on TV one day. I told them that I am horrible at them and left it at that. Other than the fact that it's true, I omitted to inform them that it is a completely different game (NL tourney vs. Live Limit), blinds going up just frustrate me, I don't like having to prove I am better than 500+ players, I can't change tables or walk away in a tournament, etc. They wouldn't understand...or really be interested for that matter. Just make sure their impression of your game is always what I maintained in the first paragraph.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

In a way, you're really lucky -

to have parents see you doing that and telling you to move up is the OPPOSITE of what I expected when I read this - I thought they'd be warning you it's a sin, etc, etc...

RB

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Hi Jeff,

I've often wondered what is the difference between a poker enthusiast and a poster-type compulsive gambler? Put aside the fact that there may be dozens of threads on this subject already.

As another poster just pointed out, poker takes up A LOT of time. Win or lose, aren't we all compulsive gamblers also? What if you take the average compulsive gambler who's lost everything playing the horses or some dumb-ass dice game on the asian side at Commerce, and make him a long-term winning player? Does he still have a problem?

Does a gambling "problem" still exist if you are winning?

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

i have become everything my parents feared.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

What you should have done was explain to them that the guy that won 1.4 million in that $10,000 buy in event or whatever it was probably spent about 10 years and 100 ten thousand dollar buy ins before he finally won first place money. So he's really only made $400,000 after ten years. Or $40,000 a year.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Ever since i won $450 in blackjack my first time ever gambling (dad standing right behind me the whole time), my folks are convinced that i am just a lucky SOB. If i tell them i went to the casino and played, they always ask me what i play, even though i keep telling tham that i NEVER play -EV games like blackjack or slots and i ONLY play poker now. Yes, i still live at the parents house, but that'll be over VERY soon, hopefully.

Today i hit a small BB jackpot (3.3k) and the first thing my mother says after i fan the bills is "did you play blackjack or the machines?"... and then they BOTH asked "how much did you have to spend to win it?" Ten years from now if i am making a decent side income playing part time, my dad will still ask if i won it all playing blackjack. Maybe they think poker games include blackjack?

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Your mother sounds like mine. Mine says: "That's not a lot of money to win for all the hours you sit at the computer."

Thanks, Mom.

I told her if I ever win a big televised tourney, far from thanking her, I'm going to tell Norman Chad and 10,000,000 people across America: My mother never believed in me. She's never supported me in anything I've ever done.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Compulsive gamblers can't resist betting on anything and everything and won quit until they own the casino or lose everything they brought. I sort of go by a different definition of gambling problem:

You've made a losing bet and it's your problem.

Nonetheless, many poker players (including some pros and winners, as well as marginal winners) are "addicted" to poker and the action it provides. They just don't lose money so there is no rock bottom for them. But many of them have priorities screwed up: They will put poker ahead of friends, families, their own personal health, career goals, other aspects of their life. The irony is that it is often this obsessiveness that cultivates an extremely good player, but many people who play all the time are not that good and would be better served putting their energies elsewhere.

Poker, as in life, is all about balance. Even if it is your sole source of income, keeping poker in perspective will preserve your relationships, life and health. Never EVER break a committment you have to a friend or family member for poker. Treat it like a business, not like you're on a permanent vacation (even if that's how it feels at times).

Jeff

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

I'm staring to really appreciate my parents. It sounds like some of you have parents that don't trust you very much. If you have proven to your parents that you are capable of making smart decisions, managing you money, and setting priorities, I can't see why they would have any problem with poker as a hobby.

If you are in your 20s or younger, I can understand some of this, but if you are in your 30s you should already have the kind of relationship with your parents where they respect your choices.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

Do tell your parents that you regularly have days where you win and lose thousands of dollars, sometimes sitting in front of your cpu in your underwear? Or do you just tell them you go to AC once a month and play poker with no other details? Many parents would have no problem accepting the latter but would heap tons of crap down your throat when told of the former (even if you can prove you are consistently profitable). This is just my take.

If your parents are cool and trusting enough to not worry when you tell them every detail, they are definitely more accepting of certain things than most in my experience.

Jeff

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do tell your parents that you regularly have days where you win and lose thousands of dollars, sometimes sitting in front of your cpu in your underwear?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know so much about me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ? I do wear clothes most of the time.

They know I play in live games and in AC and Vegas. They know I play online. I don't get into numbers with them. If they knew the exact numbers, I'm sure they would be suprised.

I don't think anyone who is not part of the "poker community" can understand how the game works, so I just don't talk numbers with any of those people whether they are family or friends. They are just "squares" and will never get it, so it is pretty pointless to try to explain it. In general, I just don't talk about poker with these people because they are just not interested in it. We have plenty of other topics to discuss.

As long as I am not neglecting my job, social life or health, I am sure that my friends and family would be OK with my poker playing even if they knew the exact numbers.

But then again, I am in my 30s and I have a long history of acting responsibly. I have never asked my parents for dime since the day I graduated college.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you are in your 30s you should already have the kind of relationship with your parents where they respect your choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't sure what I was intending when I wrote the original post. It just sort of flowed out. I never expected them to understand, which is why i had not tried to talk to them about it to this point. But they go around telling people that I play poker, so...

The more I think of it since graduating college and entering the work force - it is like I am the adult and my parents are the children. Perhaps I should visit the psychology forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are in your 20s or younger, I can understand some of this, but if you are in your 30s you should already have the kind of relationship with your parents where they respect your choices.

[/ QUOTE ]
Awesome point, and I feel I have that with my folks, for the most part. Although I also agree with Jeff, the less details the better. Again, as long as they see you as the responsible son they had hoped they raised, we should not be ashamed of our hobby/obsession.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he knows because:

[ QUOTE ]
25,000 hands of 2/4 online this year with a current winrate of 1.02 BB/100

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm just givin you a hard time. Keep up the good work, but keep improving. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to them about how I have played 25,000 hands of 2/4 online this year with a current winrate of 1.02bb/100. About my eventual goals of moving up and/or playing higher at the casino. My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?" He says "one bet every 100 hands! How can you stand it? I would be way too bored. That's not poker. I couldn't do that. What happens the other 99 hands?" <insert fatherly condescending tone>

[/ QUOTE ]

Your father didn't understand the technical terminology about BB/100. He proabably thought you were playing only one hand in 100. Just tell him you made $1K on the year.

As for major tournaments, explain that they cost $10K entry fee and you are up against a lot of world class players, so they would be a losing propostion for you at this point.

You are lucky your parents accept your playing poker.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Talking to my parents about poker. More specifically online poker and texas hold'em.

Oh they know I play. They even bought me SSH for Christmas last year. My father and grandfather taught me poker growing up - 5 card draw, 7 card stud, 5 card Chicago, wildcard games. And I am 37 years old. And they are retired. (Sadly my grandfather died from smoking years ago.) They watch tournament poker on television all the time and my dad plays Hoyle's computer game for fun.

To this point I have followed my father's advice from my college days. "Don't tell your mother." Well I have not told either of them very much to this point. Only that I am a winning player. The only questions they ever ask are "how much?" Funny this was the only question my mother ever asked my dad when he came home from bowling/poker night when I was a kid!?

So this past weekend I was in town visiting and they brought it up. They keep wanting to know why I don't play in tournaments. When am I going to try it? "So-and-so just won 1.4 million dollars in this one the other night." My mom even thinks she could see me on tv.

So I decide it is time to educate them. Mistake. I approached them with the ideas of avoiding risk, bankroll building and management. I talked to them about how I have played 25,000 hands of 2/4 online this year with a current winrate of 1.02bb/100. About my eventual goals of moving up and/or playing higher at the casino. My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?" He says "one bet every 100 hands! How can you stand it? I would be way too bored. That's not poker. I couldn't do that. What happens the other 99 hands?" <insert fatherly condescending tone> I had to give up relatively soon after that. I even tried explaining 2+2 and how many semi-pro players have offered me advice and are giving me a solid foundation - free of charge. It flew over their heads. I also tried explaining to my mother that I do not play NL. Sheesh. She just laughs and says "that's not much money to win for all that time. It can't be worth it." Ugh.

I am not one to bother others with my adventures, so this experience was frustrating. Perhaps typical of my relationship with my parents.

Point is it has made me appreciate 2+2 even more.

Thanks, HHH.

[/ QUOTE ]


Your parents want you to be a higher roller. That's pretty sweet in my opinion.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

This is the impression I got. I'd tend to agree with your parents if you're making 4$/100h . I didn't tell my parents anything until I was making more than them as a college student. They see things differently then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

I was sure this was going to be about SIIHP.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should be happy that your parents accept your job/hobby and are supportive (albiet cluelessly). Last time I went to my Mom's house there was a "So You're a Compulsive Gambler" pamphlet under my keys when I was ready to go. She didn't say anything either. Thanks, Mom.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is freakin' hilarious [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

nobody gets high the first time. don'tw orry about it

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

i would describe my parents as pretty old fashioned (they are also old for my age), but they know how much i make and what my swings are and such. sometimes i will say to my mother, "wow, i just won a $3,000 pot" or "man i lost $5K today", and i'm surprised how well she takes it!

sure, at first all i heard was "don't lose it all!" and stuff like that. or if i say i have been playing only 1/2 hour and i'm up a few grand, they still sometimes say "you should quit!" or if i lose a big hand they say "you should have quit 5 minutes ago" and silly stuff like that, but by now they are conditioned. they know i play and they know i make that dollar. they see me go on all these trips and pay for this and that and they know i haven't had a job in 3 years, so they put 2 and 2 together (no pun intended) and must have deduced that i am a winning poker player. that's that.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to them about how I have played 25,000 hands of 2/4 online this year with a current winrate of 1.02bb/100. About my eventual goals of moving up and/or playing higher at the casino. My dad says "you play too tight." I say "how do you know?" He says "one bet every 100 hands! How can you stand it? I would be way too bored. That's not poker. I couldn't do that. What happens the other 99 hands?"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I also tried explaining to my mother that I do not play NL. Sheesh. She just laughs and says "that's not much money to win for all that time. It can't be worth it." Ugh.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're only playing one or two tables, then really you aren't making much money. But I presume that you are having fun with a hobby that brings in some extra money. That may be a better way to explain to your parents all of those hours spent staring at a computer screen muttering to yourself. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
She just laughs and says "that's not much money to win for all that time. It can't be worth it." Ugh

[/ QUOTE ]

Put it in terms of an hourly rate in comparison to a job. She doesn't know what the hell bb/100 hands is.



[/ QUOTE ]

According to my calculations, the OP has only made approx. $1000 this year playing online, excluding likely bonuses and rakeback. Consequently, I would assume that his hourly earn will not sound very impressive, especially since he is a thirty-seven year old man.

Nonetheless, he could just tell his parents that he is fortunate to have a hobby that makes him money, rather than his having a like golf, music, etc. which costs money.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If i tell them i went to the casino and played, they always ask me what i play, even though i keep telling tham that i NEVER play -EV games like blackjack or slots and i ONLY play poker now.

[/ QUOTE ]

poker is a -EV game by definition. also, if you are old enough to gamble in a casino, you shouldn't be living with your mom and dad.

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do tell your parents that you regularly have days where you win and lose thousands of dollars, sometimes sitting in front of your cpu in your underwear? Or do you just tell them you go to AC once a month and play poker with no other details? Many parents would have no problem accepting the latter but would heap tons of crap down your throat when told of the former (even if you can prove you are consistently profitable). This is just my take.

If your parents are cool and trusting enough to not worry when you tell them every detail, they are definitely more accepting of certain things than most in my experience.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much tell my parents all the details about me playin poker... even when i lost $23,000 and was down to a bankroll of $330, and no money into any bank accounts.. my mom transferred a grand into my bank account so I could buy books, food, etc [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

i was a bit concerned about telling them i lost more than 20 grand - it was more money than i could have imagined having before i started playing poker... i wasn't worried about it, but i figured they'd flip lol. funny thing is, they weren't worried either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. my dad told me not to get discouraged and my mom sent me a card.

i turned that $330 into $21,500 in the last 21 days [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: I tried it for the first time this past weekend...and failed.
 

No offense, but your parents should absolutely be worried about you dumping almost your entire bankroll.

Anyways, I tell my parents about how much I make when they ask. When I first started playing they were of course wary but are now pretty supportive. They know I'm a winner, and that I'm too smart to go entirely bust. They just don't want me dropping out of school which is understandable.