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A couple of hands ...
Hand 1
UTG+2 appears solid - in that he has shown down several hands and has always had the goods. He's aggressive and I haven't seen him get out of line the since I sat down. He's also running very good. Catching cards. He's got about $160 in front of him. All others seem to be your standard LAPs and LAGs. Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. Flop: (13.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. Turn: (8.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls. River: (10.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 12.25 BB hand 2 UTG+1 is the same guy as UTG+2 in hand 1. My flop check-raise was to trap the callers for an extra bet with my draw. Q1: Is this poor play considering I'm drawing to the 5th nut flush? Q2: Since UTG+1 3-bet and cleared the field (ugh -- not what I planned), should I have capped the flop and auto-bet the turn in attempt to get him to lay down his hand. I think my draw is excellent once he clears the field in that I doubt he has a flush draw and if I hit 2 pair or trips it's probably gonna be good. Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls. Flop: (8.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button folds, Hero calls. Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, UTG+1 checks. River: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls. Final Pot: 10.25 BB Comments on all streets appreciated in both hands appreciated. -DP |
Re: A couple of hands ...
I don't like the preflop cap in hand 1. I would also probably bet the river.
Hand 2 I would check/fold the river. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
hand 1 - against a "solid" player, I'm not capping KQo PF
rest of the streets are good hand 2 - well played... I might toss this PF, but then again I'm folding in the blinds way too much. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the preflop cap in hand 1. I would also probably bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] fold to a raise? We aren't ahead of alot of PF 3-betting hands on the river against a solid player. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Hand 1: Capping preflop is out of line. The rest is okay. If you just call the preflop 3-bet, you should probably go for a check-raise on the flop to knock out the third guy.
Hand 2: Fold preflop. Given that you're in, the flop is fine. I don't see the value in betting the river. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Hand 1: Capping preflop is awful. Rest of the hand's fine although i'd probably bet the river.
Hand 2: Don't think you should be betting that river. I'd check/call that river maybe check/fold not sure. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't like the preflop cap in hand 1. I would also probably bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] fold to a raise? We aren't ahead of alot of PF 3-betting hands on the river against a solid player. [/ QUOTE ] His line looks a lot like a pair smaller than queens or AK/AJ. Checking/calling here is far worse than bet/folding IMO as when he bets we are behind almost everytime. If he wants to see a showdown I think we should bet. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Hand 1:
Why cap with KQo against a solid player who 3-bet you? He's more than likely ahead of you now. Since you capped it... I think you played it fine post-flop. Alternatively you could have bet/folded the river. Hand 2: Slightly loose BB call with only two callers, but I'm sure others here would disagree with me. Good check-raise on the flop - don't worry about losing flush over flush. It's unlikely to lose flush over flush. If you led out with a bet, he often would make the field face two bets cold... the C/R gives you the best chance of keeping others in the hand and putting money in the pot. Him checking the turn was odd... maybe he has QQ, KK, or KJ? That or he was way overplaying a flush draw on the flop. There's very few hands you can beat here given the pre-flop and flop action, so I'd probably give it up on the river. However, that turn check really makes me think about bet-folding the river. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Hi DP,
Hand 1: The cap preflop is not the best plan. You mentioned that UTG2 appears solid AND you have a cold-caller in between. Not a great time to do so with KQo. Should your theory hold up, you will be behind to UTG2 plus UTG1 will not fold anyway. If he will cold-call two then, he'll cold-call two now. The rest of the hand seems fine. Hand 2: The flop check-raise is fine. Although I would have bet out. You have a strong enough hand to do so and clearing up some overcards, should UTG1 raise, is not a bad thing at all. When he 3-bet though, this seems like you're way behind. Sure, your T or 5 outs seems clean, but you're probably going to have to hit your hand to win. I think you played it fine, especially the river bet. You are not going to survive a showdown and must get villain a chance to lay it down. Expect to lose to a pp. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Hand 1
Some people limp in with KQo UTG, however i personally like raising with it to try and knock out some ace rags depending on the texture of the game. Not too sure about the cap. I think flop, turn and river all fine. Hand 2 Don't like the call in 1st place - you've gotta hit this flop pretty hard to feel good about your hand. As for protecting your hand you fail miserably. Think you should re(read) this section in SSH. You need to trap people for 2 bets not an extra bet, all you are doing here is increasing size of the pot for people to stay in till later streets and draw out on you. As for the river, you're giving you're opponent 9.25-1 to call your bet here, which after you checked the turn showing weakness he's prob gonna do most of the time. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
With hand 2 he probably won't win unless he improves to a flush, two-pair, or trips. With that said, why do you want to make others face two bets cold? Playing a draw heads-up against someone with a strong hand isn't my idea of a great plan. Keeping others in the hand will be more profitable.
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Re: A couple of hands ...
Hand one I do not cap preflop. Post flop looks like it was played fine, except postflop would look different if you hadn't capped preflop I assume.
Hand two I like the trap on the flop, but I cap when it's back to me. I also bet the turn. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
*grunch*
I hate capping with KQo preflop. There's only one person jammed between you and villain, so isolation isn't that important. Had this been your action a flop C/R would be in order, but I think capping makes a bet on the flop ok. I also bet the river. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 UTG+2 appears solid - in that he has shown down several hands and has always had the goods. He's aggressive and I haven't seen him get out of line Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. [/ QUOTE ] Good lord...you capped against a solid-looking player pre-flop with KQo...yikes. That said, the rest of the hand looks fine. You probably got beat on the river. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls. Flop: (8.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button folds, Hero calls. Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, UTG+1 checks. River: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls. Final Pot: 10.25 BB -DP [/ QUOTE ] I could take or leave it pre-flop. Since it's suited and you close the betting, I can't fault you for taking a shot. I like the check-raise on the flop. If UTG+1 didn't 3-bet you'd have gotten 4 SBs total from those other two callers. I'd lean to checking the turn as well. But with likely 14 outs to the best hand (and you could be leading already), a bet is not terrible. On the river I'd check it down if I didn't bet the turn. Based on your read it's 99.5% the 2 didn't really help him. Would he pay off with KQs unimproved? |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: ...Although I would have bet out. You have a strong enough hand to do so and clearing up some overcards, should UTG1 raise, is not a bad thing at all. [/ QUOTE ] Don't you want the other two to come along as you draw to the flush? You'll allow some overcards in, but you're increasing your pot and implied odds (not to mention the total dollars you'll win) if you hit the flush. I like the way OP did it. Check, get PF aggressor to bet, two calls, raise with the intention of having the callers have to call just one more bet. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hand 2: ...Although I would have bet out. You have a strong enough hand to do so and clearing up some overcards, should UTG1 raise, is not a bad thing at all. [/ QUOTE ] Don't you want the other two to come along as you draw to the flush? You'll allow some overcards in, but you're increasing your pot and implied odds (not to mention the total dollars you'll win) if you hit the flush. I like the way OP did it. Check, get PF aggressor to bet, two calls, raise with the intention of having the callers have to call just one more bet. [/ QUOTE ]There are certainly different ways to play this hand which are all correct. In his case, the added 5 and T outs are juicy enough to make a bet and not mind getting raised more correct. A key thing to look at is the other players called two bets cold preflop. What makes you think they won't call two bets cold on the flop also? (Pretend you don't know the flop results yet) Of course, if that happens, hero can opt to 3-bet if he's feeling lucky. On the same note, as for the the players behind the pf raiser, they cold-called pf. They most likely have an ace or some type of pp. It may behoove hero to get it headsup. The pot is plenty and he should take the lead in this hand. Should pf raiser have a big pp, so be it. But I would be pissed if my disillusion of my flush draw allows someone to catch their ace on the turn. Oops, there it is! |
Re: A couple of hands ...
Gruching...
Hand 1 - Hate the pre-flop cap Hand 2 - I'd check river and hope he'll check behind his JJ-KK |
Re: A couple of hands ...
[ QUOTE ]
A key thing to look at is the other players called two bets cold preflop. What makes you think they won't call two bets cold on the flop also? [/ QUOTE ] Just to this part, I find if people are in for 2 pre-flop (no matter how bad calling two was) they don't have the discipline to fold for 2 more...or they see the pot odds and figure it's a good play. Facing two bets without having bet yet on the flop would be tougher for them to call, I believe. It's easier to get me to fold that way. Like you said, there are many ways to do it. I guess I'm thinking more toward making the flush and settling for two pair/trips if it happens. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
bad player telling you how to play hold'em:
"well preflop comes and you put in your call, some people raise but i don't think it's a good idea" "now when the flop comes and you know what your hand is, you can call if you have a draw or now is a decent time to fold if you don't want to keep going" |
Re: A couple of hands ...
hand1:
capping pf is bad. I don't even open-raise this all of the time. Rest of the hand is fine. hand2: Fold pf. I don't like check-raising this flop. UTG+1 leads the flop, he'll lead the turn as well. Check/call the flop, check/raise a later street if you make a hand. I'm not really a fan of check-raising a draw out of position. |
Results
Thanks for all the great input.
H1: He had AKo and rivered me. I guess he's not that good or solid. I think folding the turn was his best option. I capped pre-flop because he was running very very well. Made lots of hands in a short period of time. I think many players play a little (or a lot) more loose when they're running good like he was. But the concensus is to simply call the 3-bet and see what happens. I'm sure you guys are right. I got a little aggro [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] H2: I think I should have capped the flop and bet the turn. He may have laid it down had I done that. Elsewise, my draw is monster ... so I think it's a good place to semi-bluff both streets. But the way I played it, I don't think I should have bet the river. I got caught up in the thought that he checked the turn. So I though I could bet the river and he'd fold. Bad timing and bad logic. He showed KK and took it down. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Thanks again all. |
Re: A couple of hands ...
-blind response-
hand 1 pf- I don't think I like the cap here. Villain's range vs an ep raiser and a coldcaller has to have you pretty sufficiently covered. UTG + 1 isn't going anywhere, so just take a flop and see where you stand. -flop- I go for the checkraise on the flop, since UTG + 2 was the aggressor pf and you can face UTG + 1 with two cold here. You want him to fold out a raggedy A or K that can beat you later here. leading the turn and check/calling the river seem ok to me. -hand 2- I fold pf becuase I'm not good at playing this hand against a good ep raiser oop. Putting in any kind of raise here would be an absolute disaster. I like the flop since you have a strong draw with up to 14 outs. (9 clubs, 2 fives, and 3 tens), plus pairing the board can be good if villain has something crazy like A2s. Also, you're waaaay ahead if he doesn't have a J or an overpair. turn and river look ok to me. . . . ... but I suck. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
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