poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

I'm a serious novice player and have heard some folks disparage party poker and other sites for juicing the games. I know this has been discussed extensively. Basically, what are the opinions of more experienced players? Do these sites intentionally program the deals so that lower sets face higher sets to increase the action and so then increase their rake? Might this happen. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to do, but if found out would also be the demise of the site.

Thanks for all input and looking forward to the discussion.

zenpractice

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

No. End of thread.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Everyone around here belives online poker is rigged. There will be an overwhelming number of votes for "Yes".

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone around here belives online poker is rigged. There will be an overwhelming number of votes for "Yes".

[/ QUOTE ]

You're so naive. You failed to realize that the major online poker sites are also rigging this poll. Do not underestimate their power.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

There are just under 40,000 registered users on this forum. So could someone please explain to me how there could about 239841 idjits asking this question in the last 6 months??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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Reged: 08/18/05
Posts: 1


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Best part is they waited a month to ask

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Party/Empire are suspicious.

UB, Stars, Paradise, FullTilt and Pacific(limited) seem legit.

I do not have enough data for definitive proof at this time, and your questions will be met with sarcasm and rudeness on these discussion boards.

The basic premise, I have is that the party network wants to be the most powerful player in the poker world. This is an easy assumption to make. To be the most powerful means making the most money and having the most influence. To do this you need to generate the most rake, and you need to get the most players. How to get the most players then? You need weak player to attract strong players. So, how do you get the most weak players? You keep them on your site as long as possible without busting out. How do you do this? You have a rating system, where the site rates the players based on their previous wins/losses, their rake generated, bonuses received, play frequency etc. Then when a player who is taking money from the site (which has a bad rating) is up against one of these weak players (who has a good rating), you make the poorly rated player lose to the highly rated player by having the poorly rated player win the pot.

This is a logical argument. It is extremely difficult to prove.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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Party/Empire are suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blah, blah, blah...different thread, same old drivel... At least this time you are on topic...


[ QUOTE ]
Then when a player who is taking money from the site (which has a bad rating) is up against one of these weak players (who has a good rating), you make the poorly rated player lose to the highly rated player by having the poorly rated player win the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious...how does the poorly rated player lose to the highly rated player if the poorly rated player wins the pot?

Further curious...if taking money from the site is a bad thing to be punished, why do so many people continue to take money from the site month after month after month?

Acme

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party/Empire are suspicious.

UB, Stars, Paradise, FullTilt and Pacific(limited) seem legit.

I do not have enough data for definitive proof at this time, and your questions will be met with sarcasm and rudeness on these discussion boards.

The basic premise, I have is that the party network wants to be the most powerful player in the poker world. This is an easy assumption to make. To be the most powerful means making the most money and having the most influence. To do this you need to generate the most rake, and you need to get the most players. How to get the most players then? You need weak player to attract strong players. So, how do you get the most weak players? You keep them on your site as long as possible without busting out. How do you do this? You have a rating system, where the site rates the players based on their previous wins/losses, their rake generated, bonuses received, play frequency etc. Then when a player who is taking money from the site (which has a bad rating) is up against one of these weak players (who has a good rating), you make the poorly rated player lose to the highly rated player by having the poorly rated player win the pot.

This is a logical argument. It is extremely difficult to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, thanks for clearing that all up for me. I thought the sites just wanted fair games so people would come back and play. I used to think otherwise, but now it is all so clear to me.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

I find it kind of scary that nobody even remains open minded about this.

The rampant refusal to even accept the possibility that things might be amiss must be music to the ears of current/future site owners everywhere.

Like the poster above mentioned, if there was any foul play, it would most likely be to keep the fish in play longer, not generate more rake.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

If you are just going to reply with sarcasm and act like a jerk, why even bother reading the thread in the first place?

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

For [censored]'s sake. can we get a separate "online poker is rigged" forum?

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

The poorly player loses in general to average players and other poor players, and highly rated players too ... (but once in a while gets a "bonus") where he wins slightly more often than he should.

Of course people take money from the sites, if not then the sites would cease to exist. However, as you know by design, less money comes out of the site than goes in. It is all a question of how much.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

To beat this "juicing" you must have the latest Pattern Map version. That's the only way to stay ahead of the game. You are otherwise destined for failure.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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I find it kind of scary that nobody even remains open minded about this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those of us who have played long enough, and have both good statistics and track records, don't have to be "open minded" about this. We have indisputible facts that answer this question for us.

There simply is no dispute. There are no facts to back up the rigging theory.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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[ QUOTE ]

Reged: 08/18/05
Posts: 1


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Best part is they waited a month to ask

[/ QUOTE ]


You gotta know when to pick your spots.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find it kind of scary that nobody even remains open minded about this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those of us who have played long enough, and have both good statistics and track records, don't have to be "open minded" about this. We have indisputible facts that answer this question for us.

There simply is no dispute. There are no facts to back up the rigging theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

This thread is juiced.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find it kind of scary that nobody even remains open minded about this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those of us who have played long enough, and have both good statistics and track records, don't have to be "open minded" about this. We have indisputible facts that answer this question for us.

There simply is no dispute. There are no facts to back up the rigging theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you can quickly give me your win % heads up with a hand you have dominated over a sample size of say, 250k+ hands?

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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This is a logical argument. It is extremely difficult to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a specious conspiracy theory. It is impossible to prove.

There have been many posts here by people with large database of online results. Every one of them has shown that the results are in line with statistical expectations. No one have ever provided any data here showing online results that are statistically improbable.

It is impossible to prove a negative proposition, such as online poker is not rigged. It is logically simple to prove a positive proposition, such as online poker is rigged. All it takes is a single example. No one has ever provided one.

Your "logical argument" is as strong as any other evidence ever provided to show that online poker is rigged. That is to say, idle speculation of no value.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Stay away from Party and Empire. Eurobet is the place to be, they have a good RNG there that is true.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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Party/Empire are suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

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UB, Stars, Paradise, FullTilt and Pacific(limited) seem legit.


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rofl

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I do not have enough data for definitive proof at this time, and your questions will be met with sarcasm and rudeness on these discussion boards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. Do you see why?

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

To believe in the honesty of online poker across the board is folly.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stay away from Party and Empire. Eurobet is the place to be, they have a good RNG there that is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hardly ever see bad beats at euro, not nearly as many as i see at party anyway.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Online poker is as juiced as Jason Giambi has been this year.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

You should have included some options like "I don't think so, but anything is possible" or "It's possible that some sites are, though most sites aren't". You're asking a question that nobody can be 100% sure about the answer (despite protestations to the contrary from many posters on here).

My view is that anything is possible...though I highly doubt that the big sites are rigged.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Don't be worried about the software of a reputable site, be worried about people playing multiple accounts.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Further curious...if taking money from the site is a bad thing to be punished, why do so many people continue to take money from the site month after month after month?

Because online poker sites have created a new kind of player, the winning fish these players are poor players, but as they keep winning over the better players, everybody, including themselves, assume they are good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Let's assume you have 30 million dollars.
Let's assume you want to invest them and start an online poker site.
Let's assume you have to make a decision:
1. Perfect site, no rigging, after 6 months all sharks are laughing, all fishes are broke, after a year you are bankrupt.
2. Rigged, sharks still win, just not as much as they should. Fishes still lose, just not as much as they should.

As a businessman what do you do?


yes, yes, I know, usual replies, assume you're an idiot, 3 jump in the river, etc... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stay away from Party and Empire. Eurobet is the place to be, they have a good RNG there that is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hardly ever see bad beats at euro, not nearly as many as i see at party anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to tell if these are serious, but I'll risk responding to a troll. And there are newbs here who really don't know.

If you play ring games or SnGs at Party, Empire, Euro, Multi, or Intertops, you are playing at the same site, using the same RNG. Only some tournaments are unique to the different sites. If you are playing a 1/2 limit holdem game at Euro, other people at your table can be playing at any of those other sites.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume you have 30 million dollars.
Let's assume you want to invest them and start an B&M card room/casino.
Let's assume you have to make a decision:
1. Perfect B&M card room/casino, no rigging, after 6 months all sharks are laughing, all fishes are broke, after a year you are bankrupt.
2. Rigged, sharks still win, just not as much as they should. Fishes still lose, just not as much as they should.

As a businessman what do you do?


yes, yes, I know, usual replies, assume you're an idiot, 3 jump in the river, etc... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess all live games must be juiced as well.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stay away from Party and Empire. Eurobet is the place to be, they have a good RNG there that is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hardly ever see bad beats at euro, not nearly as many as i see at party anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to tell if these are serious, but I'll risk responding to a troll. And there are newbs here who really don't know.

If you play ring games or SnGs at Party, Empire, Euro, Multi, or Intertops, you are playing at the same site, using the same RNG. Only some tournaments are unique to the different sites. If you are playing a 1/2 limit holdem game at Euro, other people at your table can be playing at any of those other sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes i was being sarcastic, i'm aware of all the party skins. I have heard people actually say this and be serious before tho. It is quite funny.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume you have 30 million dollars.
Let's assume you want to invest them and start an B&M card room/casino.
Let's assume you have to make a decision:
1. Perfect B&M card room/casino, no rigging, after 6 months all sharks are laughing, all fishes are broke, after a year you are bankrupt.
2. Rigged, sharks still win, just not as much as they should. Fishes still lose, just not as much as they should.

As a businessman what do you do?


yes, yes, I know, usual replies, assume you're an idiot, 3 jump in the river, etc... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess all live games must be juiced as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i had 30 million dollars and wanted to open a poker site. I think the hardest part is starting it up. So i would have a free million dollar tournement, lets say about 2 months after the opening of the site. I'd do a lotta advertising and try to hype this up. All you have to do is play 100 raked hands generating atleast 1 dollar in rake each. I would think this would bring a ton of players to the site, maybe 5k-10k would participate in the tourney and then it would give the site a player base. I'd also payout top 25% in the tourney to start a bankroll for many of the players. I think investing a million plus all the advertising costs would be well worth getting the site off the ground. Im suprised nobody has done something like this yet.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because online poker sites have created a new kind of player, the winning fish these players are poor players, but as they keep winning over the better players, everybody, including themselves, assume they are good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Man...I want to be one of them!!! Winning fish is perfect -- it's the little guy beating "the man" at his own game!

Acme

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
To believe in the honesty of online poker across the board is folly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...theres too much money being made to be all straight...but as long as I win $$ I dont really care if a site is strange.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

They don't cheat because its in their best business interests not to. Being above board translates into CASH. It's fundamental to human nature.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
They don't cheat because its in their best business interests not to. Being above board translates into CASH. It's fundamental to human nature.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is in their best LONG-TERM interests...but a lot of businesses get short-sighted and go for the quick buck. The current big sites are legit...but there are almost certainly some sites that are not.

Acme

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find it kind of scary that nobody even remains open minded about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one seems to be open-minded about gravity, either. They seem to think that everything falls down.

If new evidence rolls in, then the position can be reconsidered. Otherwise, the thousands of "ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED!!!!!111" threads have made us all jaded, because the OP of these threads usually has either the intellect, understanding, or mathematical acumen of trout. They make themselves very difficult to believe.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

Thank you for backing up your statement with evidence.

You are much more likely to be cheated by other players than the cardroom.

Re: poker sites \"juicing\" the game
 

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after a year you are bankrupt.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, why the f would you be broke? You're raking it in by the truckload.