A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Clarkmeister and Ed Miller are too cool for the game, but tommy was up for playing with Me, schneids, gonores, and bugstud.

Full table 40/80 at the wynn.

I open A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the high-jack, tommy cold-calls on the button, both blinds come along. The sb was better than the big blind, but neither player were any good.

Flop K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Checked to me - I bet, tommy calls, blinds fold. HU.

Turn K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Plan?

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Bet. Tommy doesn't raise, right?

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

bet and fold to a raise. it's an easier line to take knowing the opponent is tommy, which is a weakness of the passive style. if he calls though, then theres some confusion of if he's got the A, the 4, or a pocket pair, so the river decision will be tough.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Since you're the first to act: fold. It's Tommy.

Since that might seem a bit weak... Check. It's Tommy. What does he cold-call you with on the button that you are now beating? With the K pairing, he's even less likely to put you on it, which means all of his pairs beat the 4's OR you're chopping with some other Ace.

Or you can hire him on the spot for lessons and find out what you should do.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

If you don't want to checkfold I think the only sensible thing to do is check-call and checkraise the river.

-Michael

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Tommy and I were in one pot together the whole night, crazy.

Check the turn.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

check because he knows that you know that he knows the proper action is to check. In which case he will bet his king , and check if he doesn't have one, knowing that you know that he knows that you know.

I like the C/R any non Ace river line... and bet if its an Ace. Tommy will never suspect it.

So how did this game go? What was the table banter like? Anything exciting happen?

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tommy and I were in one pot together the whole night, crazy.

Check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 here. I got stupidly stuck and left a down after you guys did. bah.

fwiw this game was awesome because one guy was an utter lunatic.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

check fold. doubt he's imaginative enough to bet a hand (or call the flop) with a hand you can beat. He probably didn't call the flop with AQ with 2 guys behind him to act.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

"tommy was up for playing with Me, schneids, gonores, and bugstud."

Which I very much enjoyed. I thought it was kind of funny how it all started. I was playing $2-5 blinds NLHE in a game with Clark and Ed M., when you, shneids, bugstud, and gonores arrived. You were all hovering around our table, and then the words "there's a shorthanded $40-80 going on" were heard. We all perked up. Okay! Let's play!

And I'm thinking, just how shorthanded will this game be after five more players sit down? Oh well, full game I guess, which was kind of a bummer, that the game never did thin out. For me, the difference between shorthanded and full is the difference between work and play. So we played. Maybe next time we can make it work. :-)

My favorite hand against one of you guys was when Gonores raised preflop from the cutoff and I was the only caller. I had AT of diamonds in the big blind. I flopped a flush draw and I made the nuts on the turn. The betting went: Flop: check, bet, call. Turn: check, check. River: check, check. Very nice hand, gonores.

Come to think of it, I think the hand of this thread, and the AT hand against gonores, might have been the only two hands of mine that got shown of any of the pots I played against you guys, in what, like six hours? That's because you all kept making good folds on the river. (Note to self: bluff more.)

I also thought it was cute when I limped from the small blind in a five-handed pot and you guys all ooh-aahed about how huge my hand must be. Fun stuff.

Tommy

What a possy you are
 

"when you are the possy arrived"

I love that misspelling, as well as the syntax/typo. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: What a possy you are
 

"when you are the possy arrived"

I love that misspelling, as well as the syntax/typo.
-----------

And I love the edit feature even more.

Re: What a possy you are
 

Damn . . .

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

DAMMIT why did I back out on coming to vegas with you fuckers!

edit-wtf, how did that not get censored?

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

[ QUOTE ]
DAMMIT why did I back out on coming to vegas with you fuckers!

edit-wtf, how did that not get censored?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you wanted to watch the entire season 1 of Lost this weekend instead?

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

you make too much by checking each street to the new passive tommy and letting him check behind with a pair or an A. so checking is the only option. the question is whether to call if he bets.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

This is easy,

take a $10 chip from your stack, place it in tommy's stack and say, "well, if it takes 5grand to hire you as a coach, i think this will do for the hand. Whats your line if you were me?" whatever he says do it. all the levels of thinking will likely come down to him not thinking you'll do what he says. so do what he says.

Barron

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

check and ping an A on the river.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

LOL. I go for hiring him to find out what he has so you can make the right play.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

I don't know much about Tommy Angelo, only from a very few posts of his I've read. But his style seems to stem from a very OLD style that was suited to the homegames of many years ago (or the very loose (and clueless) small-mid stakes games in the West Coast). This style relies on your opponents being really bad where you can fold all but very strong hands since they'll still pay you off multi-way when you do hit. You cannot beat any but the softest games playing that way today (e.g., he'd probably have no shot at any 30/60 game online). It's probably a good thing that Tommy doesn't post any strategy or hand-reading comments. He'd probably be laughed out of town.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

"I don't know much about Tommy Angelo"

you got exactly one thing right in your post.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Your first seven words indicate we shouldn't have much confidence in the words that follow. True enough, you got the rest of it wrong.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

You are a disgrace to your screen name.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Ain't this a good spot for a turn checkraise?
Tommy shouldn't have a King here given his preflop coldcall of a cut-off open raise while you could very well sell a king by chcekraising.

My play would be to usually bet with the occasional checkraise, the infrequent checkcall and the rare checkfold.

In other words:

1. All options are good; or

2. I have no idea what the F*ck to do

The big picture...
 

Tommy and I had breakfast at Bay 101 last July 3rd. I hadn't discussed much poker strategy with anybody besides my pillowcase in about a year. He talked about calling raises w/ AK and calling the whole way.

Whoa.

That sounded like what my pillow case must be used to hearing.

And, so for the last year or so, when Tommy has posted a lot of his check/calling hands, I've stood by and watched. His style gets flamed by a lot of people who don't understand how poker can be like Judo...use your opponent against him/herself.

And I watched as his (my?) style got flamed endlessly.

And, now, most importantly, I'm watching as one of the most respected posters here posts a hand where he does not know what to do. Even more entertaining, I'm watching as a dozen experienced, profitable, knowledgable players are responding, each with a different plan of attack. Check/call then check/raise. Bet/fold. Check/fold. Pay him to tell him what to do...etc, etc.

Maybe this is the hand where the masses will begin to see some of the benefits of the check/calling style.

I hope not.

Josh

You should post more. n/m
 

n/m

Re: The big picture...
 

there was a better hand where everyone except tommy immediately after the hand more or less self-castrated themselves

Re: The big picture...
 

Wow. Glad I wasn't at that table.

At least they only self-castrated themselves. It's much worse when they self-castrate others!

Josh

Re: The big picture...
 

A very well-respected poster here asked me what I thought of Tommy's play last night. I stopped, blinked a few times, thought about it and replied "I dunno. He didn't play at all like us, but I only saw 3 hands of his, and the hands seemed decently played, and when I left he had way more chips than he had when he started."

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

[ QUOTE ]
but tommy was up for playing with Me, schneids, gonores, and bugstud.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just looked up "bad game" and I saw a picture of you guys.

Re: The big picture...
 

"he had way more chips than he had when he started"

He does that a lot. The prick.

I second the motion
 

Please post more.

Regards,
Andy

Re: The big picture...
 

[ QUOTE ]
A very well-respected poster here asked me what I thought of Tommy's play last night. I stopped, blinked a few times, thought about it and replied "I dunno. He didn't play at all like us, but I only saw 3 hands of his, and the hands seemed decently played, and when I left he had way more chips than he had when he started."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be the first to say that I am sure Tommy plays very well and makes much more than I could ever hope to, but this hand
My favorite hand against one of you guys was when Gonores raised preflop from the cutoff and I was the only caller. I had AT of diamonds in the big blind. I flopped a flush draw and I made the nuts on the turn. The betting went: Flop: check, bet, call. Turn: check, check. River: check, check. Very nice hand, gonores.

does not strike me as "decently played", unless he somehow KNOWS that you have no piece of the board and will only put a bet in on a river bluff.

Re: The big picture...
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I dunno. He didn't play at all like us, but I only saw 3 hands of his, and the hands seemed decently played, and when I left he had way more chips than he had when he started."

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean you are still trying to figure it out? Awesome.

Re: The big picture...
 

does not strike me as "decently played", unless he somehow KNOWS that you have no piece of the board and will only put a bet in on a river bluff.

This is a part of it, yes.

Re: The big picture...
 

[ QUOTE ]
does not strike me as "decently played", unless he somehow KNOWS that you have no piece of the board and will only put a bet in on a river bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let's put it this way. TOP style, he played it perfectly. Tommy's checking was the only way I was putting more chips into the pot.

Perfect according to TOP....he did that a lot.

Re: The big picture...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean you are still trying to figure it out? Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't feel like any less of a poker player in admitting this to be true.

Re: The big picture...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean you are still trying to figure it out? Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't feel like any less of a poker player in admitting this to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing it makes you is a better one and you are an excellent one already.

Re: A hand vs tommy angelo
 

Bet reraise if he raises you (very read dependent)