32o against a generally passive player.
 

Party 10/20.

UTG limps. He's loose and passive and fairly straightforward. Folded to me and I check in the BB with 32o.

Flop K32r. I bet, he raises.

What's better? 3-bet and keep plugging away, or call and c/r the turn? I don't think he'd raise a donkbet with one pair on the turn.

Rob

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

i would 3-bet and lead. If he top pair i think he calls down and i think you lose the least when behind.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

I keep it simple and just three-bet.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

Assuming of course that you are ahead (he's got a big king), you get 3.5 BBs in from the flop on by 3-betting.
If you go for the cr and it works, you get 4 BBs.
If you go for the cr and he checks the turn, you get 2 BBs.
So from that perspective, you have to be at least 75% sure he'll bet the turn for the cr route to be +EV.

On the flip side, he has you beat or outdraws you. It costs you 4 or 4.5 BBs flop on in the first case, and 5 BBs if he reraises the turn on your cr.

Ok, so I haven't considered the times he'll fold, but I think those are pretty strategy neutral.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming of course that you are ahead (he's got a big king), you get 3.5 BBs in from the flop on by 3-betting.
If you go for the cr and it works, you get 4 BBs.
If you go for the cr and he checks the turn, you get 2 BBs.
So from that perspective, you have to be at least 75% sure he'll bet the turn for the cr route to be +EV.

On the flip side, he has you beat or outdraws you. It costs you 4 or 4.5 BBs flop on in the first case, and 5 BBs if he reraises the turn on your cr.

Ok, so I haven't considered the times he'll fold, but I think those are pretty strategy neutral.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are also some savings that you get from the times that a King turns by call/cr'ing, too.

Rob

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

hi. I would probably checkraise this flop these days. The way you played it, I would checkraise the turn as there aren't many draws he could be raising with and if he has a king there aren't many scare cards for him. He's loose so he's probably not folding a king, his most likely holding.

EDIT: I realize you said he's loose and passive. If he's passive enough not to bet this flop if checked to (rare IMO) your flop bet is good, or if he is passive enough to call down with ace high but not after you checkraise it, flop bet also good.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

crainc

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
crainc

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

Checkraise because he basically always bets the turn and calls down and like you said, when the turn is a K you save money.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
crainc

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check raise and it's not close?

I like a c/r as well. I think you get most from what looks like a K but not an awesome K.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

I'm with spamuel. Generally I jam these low 2-pr hands on the flop and keep flooring, but against this guy it seems safe he's got a K and will bet the turn, so I'd probably cr here.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

I call and C/R turn. If he's really passive, a flop 3-bet could put him in call-down mode; if he has a K, he's not folding to the turn C/R and you get more bets in that way (in addition to seeing what comes off on the turn). I don't know many (if any) players that I would call passive that would raise a rainbow flop of Kxx and then check behind the turn -- maybe if an A fell, but usually not then either. Interestingly, if an A did fall, I might defer the C/R to the river if I knew he didn't love checking the river behind - but I'd need to know he is passive but capable of folding, and most passive guys are going to call down a turn C/R even after the A falls. If he was not terribly passive, I'd 3-bet and lead. So, in sum, I favor a turn C/R pretty clearly here.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

Why not just wait until the river to checkraise? It's not like that board is scary to someone holding a K, so there isn't much risk that he suddenly stops betting. At least wait until the river if the turn is something like K328r. By waiting until the river, we can make sure our 2-pair doesn't get counterfeited.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why not just wait until the river to checkraise? It's not like that board is scary to someone holding a K, so there isn't much risk that he suddenly stops betting. At least wait until the river if the turn is something like K328r. By waiting until the river, we can make sure our 2-pair doesn't get counterfeited.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think waiting until the river is way too risky. Loose passives are not good river value bettors and will often check behind the river with weak kings. Also, if you wait until the river, the board can easily become scary for a loose-passive (an Ace falls, or the board becomes 4-straighted).

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

to me this is an very easy call and c/r. he is almost always betting the turn so why wouldnt you?

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not just wait until the river to checkraise? It's not like that board is scary to someone holding a K, so there isn't much risk that he suddenly stops betting. At least wait until the river if the turn is something like K328r. By waiting until the river, we can make sure our 2-pair doesn't get counterfeited.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think waiting until the river is way too risky. Loose passives are not good river value bettors and will often check behind the river with weak kings. Also, if you wait until the river, the board can easily become scary for a loose-passive (an Ace falls, or the board becomes 4-straighted).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that a turn checkraise is normally best, unless a complete brick hits, like a 7/8/9 that completes the rainbow.

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
crainc

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check raise and it's not close?

I like a c/r as well. I think you get most from what looks like a K but not an awesome K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or its Scanner speak and hes trying to make your brain explode.

Also I agree...call, CR...pretty simple and plain jane. But does anybody bet/3bet the turn?

Re: 32o against a generally passive player.
 

Entity said Villain wouldn't raise a donkbet with one pair on the turn, so doubtful.