Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Why isn't this a split?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why isn't this a split?

[/ QUOTE ]

AKQ88 beats AK887....

gotta stop posting this late doug

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

heh.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why isn't this a split?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, quit drinking and posting [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

River is a work of art. I like it.

I have a question about preflop, what was reasoning behind not 3 betting this particular time?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question about preflop, what was reasoning behind not 3 betting this particular time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leaving tempo aside...I assume it's an issue of play balancing/Shania.

He is probably defending 85-100% of his hands and by calling with strong hands X% of the time it may improve the winrate of all his calling hands more than it costs him by playing AQo suboptimally sometimes.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

so what i see this stuff all the time on 5-10 party heads up games. the river is perfect because the K and the board will freeze him up and he'll just call often with some better hands and always with A high. but i think you lost some value on earlier streets but not putting in more action with the likely winner. you couldve:

reraised preflop
let it go 3 bets on the flop
c/red and called the turn

i think you left a some chips in his stack on this one.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]

$.50 is raked from a pot of $2800.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's it?? What gives?? They rake over 3 dollars from some pots on the SSNL I play. Could someone please explain why the rake is so low here.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

"And no, I there is almost never any play of this caliber at the 5-10 HU on party."

there is when i play although maybe not because i wouldve spewed on the earlier streets and assumed it was for value. anyway the point i was mainly making was the river bet was a standard value bet. i mean it's exceptional compared to the normal donkness online but standard for a very good player. that's a pretty looking board for AQ in a heads up match.

you should definitely leave the results out of your initial posts. it's perfectly possbile that clouded my response. it's best to reveal the results later in the thread, if ever.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

I love these heads up posts as I am currently in the "improve your heads up game" stage of my development.

If you have time, I would really appreciate your imput on a couple of key basic questions if you have time.

1. What range of hands (as a standard) do you open raise from button? How does the way the player plays affect your adjustments? For example. If he plays to loose you do this, too tight you adjust this way. All preflop.

2. Same question, but vs a Raise from the button when you are BB. What hands do you call, 3-bet and fold basically, and how do you adjust the standard based on players loose/tightness and agression.

3. Is it standard to feel like im violently spewing chips someimtes? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

thanks,
blake

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

what if he raises this river? cuz i would some % of the time.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love these heads up posts as I am currently in the "improve your heads up game" stage of my development.

If you have time, I would really appreciate your imput on a couple of key basic questions if you have time.

1. What range of hands (as a standard) do you open raise from button? How does the way the player plays affect your adjustments? For example. If he plays to loose you do this, too tight you adjust this way. All preflop.

2. Same question, but vs a Raise from the button when you are BB. What hands do you call, 3-bet and fold basically, and how do you adjust the standard based on players loose/tightness and agression.

3. Is it standard to feel like im violently spewing chips someimtes? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

thanks,
blake

[/ QUOTE ]

While you're answering general q's...

I would also like to ask you to what extent are able to keep your emotions in check when losing/feeling outplayed playing HU. HU limit is the most tilt-inducing form of poker I am familiar with, and the bigger the game the bigger the propensity to get pissed off.

When you are losing to a player who you feel is weaker than you, do you ever quite because you feel like his running good has given him a psychological edge?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Look at this hand I played, I'm awesome!

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look at this hand I played, I'm awesome!

[/ QUOTE ]

No your not.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Yes I am.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

im not sure why this thread has so much attention, other than the level. I think this is a pretty standard play from the hero.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

for one thing, the software is sooooooo fast one can prob play 400 hands an hour heads-up. . . .

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

UB also loves their high limit players.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

I love an opportunity to use the pictures...

http://www.fatwillie.net/cpg/albums/...ion_whore3.jpg

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

$.50 is raked from a pot of $2800.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's it?? What gives?? They rake over 3 dollars from some pots on the SSNL I play. Could someone please explain why the rake is so low here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Heads up rake at UB is .50.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im not sure why this thread has so much attention, other than the level. I think this is a pretty standard play from the hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I hardly ever see anyone making it when playing against me. I DO try to avoid the very tough players though like the norwegians, eric123 and some others. Maybe I give myself too much credit here but I honestly feel that was my best play in the 2-3 hr session we played. maybe it was because it was not a part of my normal arsinal as far back as 2 months ago.

-E

[/ QUOTE ]

I quite like this line and it reminded me to try and use it in the near future, so thanks for posting the hand.

Question: what makes the darn Scandenavians so good? I'd really like to elevate my HU game to that level, but I don't even know where to begin as I feel I "learn" (as in take something groundbreaking away), very little from each session I play.

Cheers,

Nigel

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love an opportunity to use the pictures...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad this hand was routine for you, that's really wonderful. For a n00b like me though, it provoked fresh thought on the correct valuation and play of strong A-high hands in SH scenarios. Thinking honestly, I had to admit that as my game stands now, if I bet on this board in this situation, my hand would contain a pair just about 100% of the time.

That's a leak---IT'S PART OF WHY I SUCK AT POKER. And Eugene's post illuminated it, allowing me to maybe suck just a little less.

So kindly STFU and allow me (and probably others) to learn in peace.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im not sure why this thread has so much attention, other than the level. I think this is a pretty standard play from the hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I hardly ever see anyone making it when playing against me. I DO try to avoid the very tough players though like the norwegians, eric123 and some others. Maybe I give myself too much credit here but I honestly feel that was my best play in the 2-3 hr session we played. maybe it was because it was not a part of my normal arsinal as far back as 2 months ago.

-E

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry, I'm just a low stakes player looking to learn something from you guys...why is this such a spectacular hand? You made a good guess that your A high hand was good against him...now if you had raised the river for value knowing your hand was good, and/or gotten more chips out of him, then I'd be impressed.

Seriously....I'd really like an explanation as to why this play was so great...and I'm really not trying to be a dik here, I'm sincerely interested. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
now if you had raised the river for value knowing your hand was good, and/or gotten more chips out of him, then I'd be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't raise the river, as he is out of position. If he checks the river it is unlikely Indian Head will bet as there is most likely no hand that is better than his that is folding, so a checkraise is not possible.

Also, he can't "know" his hand is good. There is nothing special about the flop and turn action that defines Indian Head's hand.

Also, it would be silly to CR bluff here with the nut nothing.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now if you had raised the river for value knowing your hand was good, and/or gotten more chips out of him, then I'd be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't raise the river, as he is out of position. If he checks the river it is unlikely Indian Head will bet as there is most likely no hand that is better than his that is folding, so a checkraise is not possible.

Also, he can't "know" his hand is good. There is nothing special about the flop and turn action that defines Indian Head's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay, I got the positions mixed up....so betting the river for value, knowing his opponent is very LAG and will continue leading after raising preflop...then betting the river....not sure why you bet here - howdo you know he'll call with a lesser hand??

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

hopefully you've answered your question about what was special about the hand

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Eugene, I think you're a solid high limit HU player, but this is pretty damn boring stuff, and mike l. is right, you can find it at Party 5-10. I am sure you have far more interesting hands than this one. Post them.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
hopefully you've answered your question about what was special about the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm serious....I want to know how the OP knows his bet on the river is A) for value and B) that it will be called?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
howdo you know he'll call with a lesser hand??

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you don't "know", but given the board, it is quite likely that IH will think E is bluffing a missed draw and will call with a weaker A, or a strong Q high.

If he raises, given E's read, he can safely fold, and if IH has a pair, he is betting anyway, and E is calling, so a bet is going in either way in that case.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

so this was a value bet?

I dont play much HU, but I don't get it. villian will never fold a pair, so youre only value betting against a small range of hands(the ace highs and maybe QJ, QT). I think the range of hands he bluffs the river with is much greater than the range he calls you with. If you're doing it to vary your play and show him you've can do some things, then ok. You def caught lucky in that he had a hand you beat that he paid you off with.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
howdo you know he'll call with a lesser hand??

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you don't "know", but given the board, it is quite likely that IH will think E is bluffing a missed draw and will call with a weaker A, or a strong Q high.

If he raises, given E's read, he can safely fold, and if IH has a pair, he is betting anyway, and E is calling, so a bet is going in either way in that case.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay, thanks, I get it....I just figured all of that was a given and there was some super-duper poker mind-meld going on here.

It really doesn't see all that different from the 5-10 game I play.

But thanks for taking the time to explain, Nigel...much appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

There have been a few hands you have posted that I havent been a big fan of, but thats pretty nasty. Nice hand.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
READS: 1)Villain chases way too much, 2)villain never bluffraises river (most opponents never do anyway) 3) due to some fancy play, vilain thinks I am very random.

By the way, my preflop play varies a lot depending on who I play. Against this opponent I would reraise AQ about 60% of the time out of position and call the rest with the intention of checkraising most (like over 90%) flops. If I checkraised the flop here btw, my opponent would have peeled with overcards if he had that type of hand.


suits played a factor in this hand.

Hand #8513879-271 at Livorno ($200/$400 Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 22/Sep/05 06:23:21

eugeneel is at seat 0 with $34233.50.
Indian Head is at seat 1 with $3955.50.
The button is at seat 1.

Indian Head posts the small blind of $100.
eugeneel posts the big blind of $200.

eugeneel: As Qc
Indian Head: -- --

Pre-flop:

Indian Head raises to $400. eugeneel calls.

Flop (board: 7s 6s 8c):

eugeneel checks. Indian Head bets $200. eugeneel
calls.

Turn (board: 7s 6s 8c 8h):

eugeneel checks. Indian Head bets $400. eugeneel
calls.

River (board: 7s 6s 8c 8h Kh):

eugeneel bets $400. Indian Head calls.



Showdown:

eugeneel shows As Qc.
eugeneel has As Qc 8c 8h Kh: a pair of eights.
Indian Head mucks cards.
(Indian Head has 5d Ad.)


Hand #8513879-271 Summary:

$.50 is raked from a pot of $2800.
eugeneel wins $2799.50 with a pair of eights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but I don't get it. This is limit heads-up play and you started with AQo. This is a huge favorite over a random hand and you went to the river with it. I mean cool, but what was the alternative?

Other than that, call-check-call-check-call-bet doesn't exactly look like a "very well played hand", because it hardly deviates from a complete "calling station". It looks more like a very self weighing approach to things.

The only interesting decision was the bet on the river. The question is what was the better play if you think you had the best hand. Let's look at the options:

bet -> wins/loses 400 if he calls
check-call -> wins/loses 400 if he bets
check-raise = much more volatility and you don't want that with just ace high on the river
check-fold -> board isn't scaring and you got the odds to call, so this is not an option

It all depends on if the other guy was more likely to bet than to call. Actually I would not expect him to call with nothing, on the other hand I would expect him to bluff with nothing in order to take the pot. For you in order to win the other guy must have nothing(!), so betting on your part was quite optimistic unless you knew that he knew that you knew this [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] If anything, then the hand could have even been misplayed.

P.S.: If we want to put the other guy on a hand, I'd say he had something like A9o, ace with a 9-J kicker for sure.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Normally E would check call here because it makes him more money when the guy bluffs at the pot. but this guy is smarter than that and just checks behind a lot. This guy also figures that if E had a King that he would have bet the turn. He puts E on a stone cold bluff when E bets out.

What he doesn't realize is that E knows this already and has value bet his Ace high.

This 32nd level thinking is why E's play is brilliant.

Satire anyone?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
P.S.: If we want to put the other guy on a hand, I'd say he had something like A9o, ace with a 9-J kicker for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

What on earth do you deduce this from?

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

Two verys is definitely excessive. Yawn.

Re: A very very well played hand, 200-400 on UB
 

[ QUOTE ]
one verys is definitely excessive. Yawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP