10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

late night 10/20 on party. 8handed
villain openlimps MP, CO limps, i type in a raise on the button, but then i realize my hand is QTo, so eff it,i just limp along... both blinds play, no raises.

ive only been in the game one, maybe two rounds at this point... havent played w/ villain before, but dont know if hes a reg as i havent been playing NL online lately. he seems to play pretty well. hes been playing quite of few pots, but has not gotten out of line, though i suspect hes capable of being tricky.

flop comes down: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (100)
checkcheck, MP bets 97 (pot after rake). CO fold, i raise to 320, blinds leave,he calls.

turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (740)
check, i bet 400, he calls fairly quickly.

river: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (1540)
he moves in for 1450 fast .

i dont have a flush. whos calling here.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

I'm not calling there. Who was the player, I'll tell you if he is good or not. PM me.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

PM me and I'll tell you that No One is calling here.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

One of the problems with this situation is sometimes they are "bluffing" the best hand. This situation though, the turn quick call leads me to think he picked up a flush redraw.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Why didn't you bet more on the turn? 500-600ish is what I was thinking. I'm not advocating it neccessarily, just curious.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Insta fold for me. Is it even close?

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

[ QUOTE ]


turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (740)
check, i bet 400, he calls fairly quickly.

river: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (1540)
he moves in for 1450 fast .

[/ QUOTE ]



Any chance when you bet $400 on the turn you only had $410 to begin with...? Then I'd call.

Maybe $420.

Otherwise, fold.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Maybe he didnt want to commit himself if checkraised...

River is a Clear fold!

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe he didnt want to commit himself if checkraised...


[/ QUOTE ]exactly... just giving myself an escape hatch... im drawing dead against a flush there.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

[ QUOTE ]



Any chance when you bet $400 on the turn you only had $410 to begin with...?


[/ QUOTE ]obviously, the amount in the OP represents the effective stacksize.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Easy fold ..next hand.

WTF
 

.

Re: WTF
 

WTF.

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]comment on my hand that i posted for the general good....

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Hi fv,

I'm not calling. Why are you considering it? Is it because he moved in fast? I don't care, I'm folding--no way he's clubless 1/3 of the time.

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]comment on my hand that i posted for the general good....

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold. I don't think I get 'down and dirty' as much as you, for better or for worse. Most people are never moving in here without the Ac.

This looks a hell of a lot like AcTx. I really don't think you can call here.

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most people are never moving in here without the Ac.


[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me like this kinda hits the nail on the head. He has the nuts. Or no club. Right? I can't see any reason to move in unless he has no club or the nuts. And it doesn't really seem like he has the nuts 2/3 of the time here. Maybe I'm nuts...

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most people are never moving in here without the Ac.


[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me like this kinda hits the nail on the head. He has the nuts. Or no club. Right? I can't see any reason to move in unless he has no club or the nuts. And it doesn't really seem like he has the nuts 2/3 of the time here. Maybe I'm nuts...

[/ QUOTE ]i think good players are moving in here with some other clubs as well some of the time.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

your post sucks bad.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

I don't think this is as clear a fold as everyone's saying. If you were Villain and had anything, wouldn't you push the river? Hero could easily have a set and moving in would be an all-star move. It's still a pretty hard call and I'd probably fold because I'm a wuss.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

Would anyone consider calling the river if he had the Q of clubs in his hand?

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone consider calling the river if he had the Q of clubs in his hand?

[/ QUOTE ] good question.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

heres another question...
WHAT THE FVCK DOES THIS GUY HAVE?

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

you have essentially the same hand against this type of bet with the Qc as a straight. The only way it helps to have the Qc is if he is 'bluffing' with a little club.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

It's either a really great bluff or the AcTx, I would fold and keep the chips for a better time.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

I fold immediately. He's got the Ac.

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

disagree.

Re: WTF
 

At higher levels of the game where both players are tough sometimes people will value bet a non-Ac like this using your logic. If the opponent assumes you can only move in with Ac or a bluff then they will consider a call with a medium club or, as our hero is, considering a call with a straight. Then a good player can effectively value bet a Kc, Qc, or even worse like this. When it works it is a beautiful sight... a poker orgasm. But when you run into the nuts you look like an idiot and no poker love for you.

-Jason

Re: WTF
 

Thanks, SI Super Star. I know that play would be what you referred to as the 4th level of overbetting in your really good post from before. But how often do you think you are seeing that here? Doesn't it seem much more likely to be the third level of nuts or nothing? I don't play in these games, so I don't know, but unless the guy is really fantastic it just seems like a really weird play with, say, the 8 of clubs. I guess it could be a 2-way bet...

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most people are never moving in here without the Ac.


[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me like this kinda hits the nail on the head. He has the nuts. Or no club. Right? I can't see any reason to move in unless he has no club or the nuts. And it doesn't really seem like he has the nuts 2/3 of the time here. Maybe I'm nuts...

[/ QUOTE ]i think good players are moving in here with some other clubs as well some of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WTF
 

You are probably right, I'm just saying versus some good players who think they can tap into the hero inside of your opponent, be very cautious assuming third-level thinking (ie just fold this hand and move on).

-Jason

Re: WTF
 

[ QUOTE ]
When it works it is a beautiful sight... a poker orgasm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really worried about you. I think that you might need some form of counseling.

Hope you get well soon.

Mike

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is as clear a fold as everyone's saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is.

RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

well, im pretty disappointed in the response this thread got... i thought this was a very interesting spot. whatever.
all i learned here is that noone on 2plus2 can read anyones hand, but there own.

i called. i won. he had J9s.

Re: RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, im pretty disappointed in the response this thread got... i thought this was a very interesting spot. whatever.
all i learned here is that noone on 2plus2 can read anyones hand, but there own.

i called. i won. he had J9s.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously won the hand if you posted *yawn*. Hard to put this dingus on J9 given the play of the hand, is that what you really put him on? I think A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J is still more likely given this betting sequence.

Re: RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, im pretty disappointed in the response this thread got... i thought this was a very interesting spot. whatever.
all i learned here is that noone on 2plus2 can read anyones hand, but there own.

i called. i won. he had J9s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimer: I don't play this high.
It seems to me that you're being very results oriented here. The fact that he had J9s and you won shouldn't change the analysis of the hand... And it doesn't make your call correct, IMO.

Re: RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, im pretty disappointed in the response this thread got... i thought this was a very interesting spot. whatever.
all i learned here is that noone on 2plus2 can read anyones hand, but there own.

i called. i won. he had J9s.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously won the hand if you posted *yawn*.

[/ QUOTE ]
not true whatsoever. all the hands ive posted here are hands that i misplayed/lost. all of them.
[ QUOTE ]

Hard to put this dingus on J9 given the play of the hand, is that what you really put him on?

[/ QUOTE ] no i put him on a range w/ 89/J9 being the frontrunners.
[ QUOTE ]
I think A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J is still more likely given this betting sequence.

[/ QUOTE ]
disagree.

Re: RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

in my experience when someone bets like than and goes all in on the river almost instantly is mad that the board came ugly for him and is hoping its ugly enough for you to fold. I know i see myself doing this sometimes too, and when i get called i always look back at my stupid quick playing and not thinking rationally. thats my point of view

Re: 10/20NL. UGLY RIVER. HE MOVES IN.
 

So wait, if you called this with the straight, would you have called with any club? I don't know, say, you had 99 with the 9c for middle set or something.

Re: RESULTS (if anyone cares)
 

its hard to believe he check-calls that turn w/ 2 pair, and if he will make this play, then he could have called the flop with a Jack and Club.

i'd probally call with the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], maybe Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but otherwise im just folding....