Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

When Christians argue among themselves about whether non Christians can be saved, even those who argue in the affirmative, usually speak only of exceptional cases. Babies, tribesman of New Guinea, mentally incompetants, technically oriented scientists, or extremely unselfish practitioners of other religions. The numbers of these people is small and everybody else is expected to seek out, and accept Jesus.

But what about the three hundred million or so females in the Muslim countries of the Middle East and elsewhere? They are expected to smuggle a bible into their house and read it after her husband goes to sleep? Or learn Christianity in high school? Yeah right. So what happens to them?

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

I believe the Catholic doctrine asks what they would have done had they been exposed to the Truth.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

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I believe the Catholic doctrine asks what they would have done had they been exposed to the Truth.

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In other words, they are doomed. At least if Catholicism is
correct.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

a friend once offered the response to a similar question (this one dealing with children brought up as a member of a different religion) saying that an omnipotent God knows whether or not a persons soul would have accepted jesus had it been given the chance

...i sincerely doubt most Muslim women would, however, even considering the crappy deal they got with their own religion(a little off subject [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

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an omnipotent God knows whether or not a persons soul would have accepted jesus had it been given the chance

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Then he'd know that about everybody before they were even born, so what's the point of having his creatures live on earth? If its to test their free will, then it doesn't make sense that billions of his people will never have the real chance to use that will an yway so he'll just "use his omnipotence" to judge their will. Such an argument shows the serious flaws in the theory that life on earth is a test for the afterlife or meant for us to serve god when most will never even know of him.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

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[ QUOTE ]
an omnipotent God knows whether or not a persons soul would have accepted jesus had it been given the chance

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Then he'd know that about everybody before they were even born, so what's the point of having his creatures live on earth? If its to test their free will, then it doesn't make sense that billions of his people will never have the real chance to use that will an yway so he'll just "use his omnipotence" to judge their will. Such an argument shows the serious flaws in the theory that life on earth is a test for the afterlife or meant for us to serve god when most will never even know of him.

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i agree with ur statement. in my mind, it is just a way of concocting an explaination for a flaw in christianity that cannot be explained away (because it isn't true), but the answer that is most often given(in my experience(which i may add is not much, i'm ony 18)), is that one. It's not very settling to anyone i know to think that there's no way that anyone not given the chance to accept Christ, will be "left out" by God, so it therefor must be explained

"if this post turns out strange, i appologize, it's one of my first post and i'm trying to figure out how this QUOTE thing works"

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

Why don't all you Jesus freaks just admit that your religion and entire belief system is goofy as hell so Sklansky can have finally rest and have some peace?

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

i hope ur not calling me a Jesus freak, i'm a Keynesian and a Naderian and a Jon Stewartian, but sure as hell no Jesus freak (oh yeah and a Michio Kaku..ian)

(for the record i'm sure that Jesus was a good guy)

-I emphasize GUY

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

I believe that the Church's position would be (although there are certainly many different beliefs within the Catholic church) that they, just like unborn infants who never had an opportunity to be exposed to Christianity, would be left to the mercy of an omnipotent God. Granted, it's kind of a copout answer, but it sounds like a resounding "We don't know."

Just to add, I think that this would fall into some things discussed in Acts of the apostles in which Paul (I think, someone could correct me) states that strict adherence to Church doctrine is not necessary for salvation, because many Old Testament figures such as Abraham did not have access to any religious doctrine (e.g. The Ten Commandments) but it would be ridiculous to say that they could not have been saved because they did not know this doctrine.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
But what about the three hundred million or so females in the Muslim countries of the Middle East and elsewhere? They are expected to smuggle a bible into their house and read it after her husband goes to sleep? Or learn Christianity in high school? Yeah right. So what happens to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

The ones who have accepted the baby Jesus will be saved, and the ones who have not will end up in hell with you.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about the three hundred million or so females in the Muslim countries of the Middle East and elsewhere? They are expected to smuggle a bible into their house and read it after her husband goes to sleep? Or learn Christianity in high school? Yeah right. So what happens to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

The ones who have accepted the baby Jesus will be saved, and the ones who have not will end up in hell with you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about the three hundred million or so females in the Muslim countries of the Middle East and elsewhere? They are expected to smuggle a bible into their house and read it after her husband goes to sleep? Or learn Christianity in high school? Yeah right. So what happens to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

The ones who have accepted the baby Jesus will be saved, and the ones who have not will end up in hell with you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a riot.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

I see two kinds of people who believe in this elitist Godhead. Those who relish being one of the chosen and take a smug satisfaction (maybe only subconsciously) that everyone who isn't part of the select will burn forever in agony, and those who are truly troubled by the monstrousness of their deity but they're so servile they won't question it. Either way, good luck getting your message accross to either of these groups, David, but don't expect much.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

David, havent we already decided that christianity is rediculas on multiple levels?

2+2 Roast
 

Any day now, I expect to see something like this written in the Washington Times op-ed page:

[ QUOTE ]
"We have a website in our midst, where young and impressionable boys and ..well other boys are encouraged to GAMBLE, to discuss SEX BETWEEN ANIMALS and other teenagers, to exchange information about FREE ONLINE PORN and, get this, to DENOUNCE JESUS!
<font color="white"> . </font>
Is it any surprise that this despicable website is run (some would say OVERRUN har har) by ATHEIST JEWS??"

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a huge controversy, with lots of media fire, lurking on this one. I don't get the play here.

...Oh wait.

Re: 2+2 Roast
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any day now, I expect to see something like this written in the Washington Times op-ed page:

[ QUOTE ]
"We have a website in our midst, where young and impressionable boys and ..well other boys are encouraged to GAMBLE, to discuss SEX BETWEEN ANIMALS and other teenagers, to exchange information about FREE ONLINE PORN and, get this, to DENOUNCE JESUS!
<font color="white"> . </font>
Is it any surprise that this despicable website is run (some would say OVERRUN har har) by ATHEIST JEWS??"

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a huge controversy, with lots of media fire, lurking on this one. I don't get the play here.

...Oh wait.

[/ QUOTE ]



"When you cut into an abcess, what do you find? Like maggots in a rotting body, a kike!

Theatre, art, religion, ridiculed! Ethics and morality pissed on! German girls turned into whores! WHORES!!!

And then the Jew casts off his final cloak. The tyrant reveals himself to be the vampire of nations! The vampire of the people of Deutschland! Blood Jew! Blood Jew! The Blood Jew!" -- Adolf Hitler






HITLER FUN FACT: Hitler was a vegetarian. Though he would eat meat if it was in sausage form.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

The idea that the Christ Being can only be obtained through the extant churches is terribly lacking in substance and form. You rightfully take issue with "condemnatory christianity" which in your issue is judgemental which is the obverse of the Christ in activity. Judge Not.

As a beginning, coming to grips with a spiritual reality (all is spirit--including human spirits) can lead to the Christ Being in the hearts of all men(muslim women included). Does the eye see the eye? The idea that ONLY men in their groups, associations, sects, etc. can pass judgement on others and be the only gate to our rightous place in the cosmos is a clouded consciousness (the ancient "Great Deciever" works here) but something an individual can work through.

Christ works in ALL MEN in FREEDOM and in LOVE. The chips haven't been counted and the game is not over. A cash out is only a new beginning.

carlo

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

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Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every 5 minutes someone comes up to you and says, should I make it 3 on the button with AK. Anyway hell is supposed to be the worst thing you can imagine forever right? Well for me I am surrounded by Catholics so I'll keep the fire burning for you guys. See ya there eh.

Mack

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
But what about the three hundred million or so females in the Muslim countries of the Middle East and elsewhere? They are expected to smuggle a bible into their house and read it after her husband goes to sleep? Or learn Christianity in high school? Yeah right. So what happens to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still places in the world where Christianity is illegal. See China for example. And to be perfectly honest, there are no easy answers.

Hell is real. There is no way to sugarcoat this. All we, as Christians, can do is continue to spread the Word of God's love.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]



Every 5 minutes someone comes up to you and says, should I make it 3 on the button with AK. Anyway hell is supposed to be the worst thing you can imagine forever right? Well for me I am surrounded by Catholics so I'll keep the fire burning for you guys. See ya there eh.

Mack

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Mack,

If I were in England, like you, I would be more worried about the hell I was in relative to my daily bread, instead of Catholics and our Daily Bread. Move to Italy, where the food is the best and the fine wine flows and you won’t be so bothered being surrounded by us Catholics.

RJT

(Unfortunately, I don’t get to Italy as often as I wish I could.)

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

I bet yall all know what im gonna say dont you.

Well your right.

Again I beleive it was God's will for these people to not accept Him. If it had been his will then it would have happened because what can happen against God's will? I also realize that there is no specific reason for God "dooming" these people. At least not to us. However God knows better than us and thats all i have to say.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

So now god controls whether we accept him or not...

Nice to know god dooms people to hell prior to their birth.
It seems safe to assume this is not something a morally perfect being would do.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]



Every 5 minutes someone comes up to you and says, should I make it 3 on the button with AK. Anyway hell is supposed to be the worst thing you can imagine forever right? Well for me I am surrounded by Catholics so I'll keep the fire burning for you guys. See ya there eh.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

Mack,

If I were in England, like you, I would be more worried about the hell I was in relative to my daily bread, instead of Catholics and our Daily Bread. Move to Italy, where the food is the best and the fine wine flows and you won’t be so bothered being surrounded by us Catholics.

RJT

(Unfortunately, I don’t get to Italy as often as I wish I could.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sold, I make (poor imitations of) Italian food all the time. When it comes to grub, not even Catholics can put me off.

Mack

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]



Every 5 minutes someone comes up to you and says, should I make it 3 on the button with AK. Anyway hell is supposed to be the worst thing you can imagine forever right? Well for me I am surrounded by Catholics so I'll keep the fire burning for you guys. See ya there eh.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

Mack,

If I were in England, like you, I would be more worried about the hell I was in relative to my daily bread, instead of Catholics and our Daily Bread. Move to Italy, where the food is the best and the fine wine flows and you won’t be so bothered being surrounded by us Catholics.

RJT

(Unfortunately, I don’t get to Italy as often as I wish I could.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Love the food in Italy but you can't get a good traditional English curry or decent beer for love nor money.

chez

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh.... Sklansky's hell. I can see it now. An endless line of simpleton donks, stretching into eternity, walking up to him and saying "I told you so," as he's surronded by hellfire, burning for all eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]



Every 5 minutes someone comes up to you and says, should I make it 3 on the button with AK. Anyway hell is supposed to be the worst thing you can imagine forever right? Well for me I am surrounded by Catholics so I'll keep the fire burning for you guys. See ya there eh.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

Mack,

If I were in England, like you, I would be more worried about the hell I was in relative to my daily bread, instead of Catholics and our Daily Bread. Move to Italy, where the food is the best and the fine wine flows and you won’t be so bothered being surrounded by us Catholics.

RJT

(Unfortunately, I don’t get to Italy as often as I wish I could.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Love the food in Italy but you can't get a good traditional English curry or decent beer for love nor money.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Chez,

I might just convince you yet on the folly of your unbelief. If we use David S.’s theory about the probability of those smarter in certain subjects…:

I know for a fact that there is this great pub in the heart of Rome, in Trastevere (for the reader who doesn’t know : means across the Tevere - Tiber River, has nothing to do with transvestites) district that has any kind of beer you could want, on tap, including English beers. And they offer it warm, like you chaps like it.

Since you would be in Trastervere when you are drinking it, I would suggest you mangia the pizza (thin as they do in Rome) as it is the best in Italy in Trastevere or eat the bruschetta (same - best anywhere). If you insist on the English curry, I will defer to you whether that could be had or not on the “Continent”. But, nowadays, I would think that with all the mid-Easterners in Rome, you might be wrong there, too.


We’ll have to do a field study one day.

Cheers,

RJT


p.s. Pre Euro dollars your “love nor money” might have held when Italy used the Monopoly currency - the Lira. But, with the advent of the Euro, you might even be wrong with that point.

p. p.s Peroni beer isn’t bad at all anymore.

Re: Muslim Women\'s Fate
 

2+2 sci, maths &amp; phil field trip to Rome sounds good to me.

With or without you I shall visit the Trastevere one day and toast you with a warm beer. I'll give up on the curry as -ev, good curry I get at home but good pizza, risotto, oh god the linguini I had in Cosenza ... I have to stop.

cheers

chez